<br /> Debconf 2 Post Mortem – Debian Planet

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    Debconf 2 Post Mortem
    Submitted by robster on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 – 09:51
    DebianJoe Drew has posted his post mortem of Debconf 2 which he very generously organised. In it he describes how he managed to cope with the problems thrown up and things he would do different next time.

    For those who could not attend, like myself, presentations for the conference are available here. And of course, a FS conference would not be complete without a huge collection of photographs, available here

    So… who is organising Debconf 3 then?

    Category: News

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    Subject: Yes.
    Author: dietz
    Date: Friday, 2002/07/12 – 09:02
    Who exactly is this hottie with the world’s most charming smile? (Or is it a smirk? Even better, then. I’d like to find out!)

    Furthermore, how can I get in contact with her?

    [ Please login, or register ]

     

    Subject: That’s Amaya Rodrigo Sastre.
    Author: Overfiend
    Date: Friday, 2002/07/12 – 21:52
    Who exactly is this hottie with the world’s most charming smile?

    She is a Debian developer.

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    Subject: Debconf 300 in Indonesia !
    Author: iblis
    Date: Friday, 2002/07/12 – 03:52
    I wish i got a sponsor to the defconf
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    Subject: UKUUG Linux Developers’ Conference
    Author: zadok
    Date: Wednesday, 2002/07/10 – 16:25
    So for the UK people who didn’t ‘DebConf’ how was the UKUUG Linux Developers’ Conference?

    Coops


    zadok.org.uk

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    Subject: Fun!
    Author: robster
    Date: Wednesday, 2002/07/10 – 18:30
    Lots and lots of fun, wish you could have been there. Buzz me and i’ll arange a time for us to meet up.

    I assume you got you key signed this time? =)

    Cheers

    Rob ‘robster’ Bradford
    Founder: http://www.debianplanet.org/
    Developer: http://www.debian.org/
    Monkey with keyboard: http://www.robster.org.uk/

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    Subject: pictures?
    Author: mako
    Date: Wednesday, 2002/07/10 – 15:19
    Lots of people there had cameras.

    I however, did not so I’m depending on other people to share.

    Could other people with pictures reply to this post with links? Thanks everyone in advance.

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    Subject: pictures!
    Author: Mithrandir
    Date: Thursday, 2002/07/11 – 08:35
    I am adding links to the pictures section on my debconf2 page referred to in the original article as I see them. Please send updates etc to tfheen@debian.org.

    Some pictures from Branden are there already.

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    Subject: Re: pictures?
    Author: zadok
    Date: Wednesday, 2002/07/10 – 15:39
    i’ve put my few up at:
    http://www.zadok.org.uk/debconf2/
    I might get around to captioning them sometime 🙂

    Coops

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    Subject: Nice Tshirt Branden
    Author: rushuru
    Date: Wednesday, 2002/07/10 – 12:36
    You know what happened in the USSR, don’t you?
    eh?
    I suggest you move to North Korea if you want to experience it somewhat, and know better what you’re promoting.
    I hope there won’t be anymore picture of debian developpers wearing tshirts of whatever promoting regims/countries/organizations/individuals convicted of crime against humanity.
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    Subject: What about his other one?
    Author: seeS
    Date: Wednesday, 2002/07/17 – 07:07
    The Atari T-shirt offends me. Go the Amiga! (not that I own one any more)

    Couldn’t give a stuff about Karl Marx and UUCP, he should of been using using fidonet anyway the slacker.

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    Subject: If you took offence at that …
    Author: Thing
    Date: Friday, 2002/07/12 – 13:31
    … I’ve got a T-shirt that would really piss you off.

    It’s the stars&stripes, but intead of stars it has a swastika.

    When I saw a friend wearing one, I laughed so much that they insisted on buying me one as a present.

    It seems to really upset some people. 🙂

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    Subject: nice conclusion jumping, rushuru
    Author: Overfiend
    Date: Wednesday, 2002/07/10 – 20:45
    You know what happened in the USSR, don’t you? eh?

    As I understand it, on the order of 20 million people — perhaps more —
    died at the hands of famine, disease, and Stalin’s government, and this
    doesn’t even count the people killed by the German army in World War II.

    I am sorry, but I will not take you up on your suggestion to move
    to North Korea.

    T-shirts don’t kill people, people kill people. If you’d like to
    construct a society where all dissention from whatever religious and
    or patriotic beliefs you happen to hold is suppressed, you go right ahead.
    But I’ll fight you if you try to do it in the United States. I’m sure
    there are a few sandbars in the Pacific Ocean where you can undertake
    your conformist Utopian enterprise unmolested.

    In the meantime, I will continue to do the best I can in word and deed
    to uphold the values expressed in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting
    the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;
    or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,
    and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    You might also consider the unanimous opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court
    in 1964 in the case New York Times Co. v. Sullivan.

    “…we consider this case against the background of a profound
    national commitment to the principle that debate on public issues
    should be uninhibited, robust, and wide-open, and that it may well
    include vehement, caustic and sometimes unpleasantly sharp attacks
    on government and public officials.”

    If you are unhappy with a libertarian approach to freedom of expression, I suggest
    that it is you who should find a different country in which to live.
    That, or you can simply apply for a job with the current administration, where your
    fascist attitude appears to be in vogue.

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    Subject: free as in speech and free as in USSR?
    Author: rushuru
    Date: Thursday, 2002/07/11 – 03:20
    ————–
    |1 Godwin point| for you
    ————–

    (Since you already called me a fascist, I guess I can safely mention nazy germany & others now).

    If I understand your reply correctly, you want to be politically uncorrect to promote freedom of speech.

    Just how far can you go then? Will you wear a “Support the DMCA”, a “Bin Laden saved me”, a “The KKK needs you”, a “HIV positive & homosexuals should be jailed”, a “Child pornography helps poor countries” or a “Hitler was right” Tshirt at DebConf3 or the next time you represent Debian at a roadshow?

    Wearing a Tshirt representing a regim that suppressed all individual freedoms and killed millions of people doesn’t strike me as a very clever way to support freedom.

    Just because the 1st amendment gives you the right to do so doesn’t mean that it’s not completely stupid to do it.

    Sometimes the people who want to urge others to think are the ones who would need it most.

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    Subject: laden
    Author: d00d
    Date: Friday, 2002/07/12 – 15:49
    Just how far can you go then? Will you wear a “Support the DMCA”, a “Bin Laden saved me”,[…]

    Bin Laden did nothing, or at most he was just a puppet of a bigger hand.

    I suggest that you read this site an think wether Al Qaeda terrorists really attacked the pentagon with a boeing 757-200:

    http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

    after this, you could take a look at:

    http://www.unansweredquestions.org/

    for more serious questions. note that there aren’t answers in that site, only questions.

    if you believe the US government was not implicated in the commitment of the 11-S genocide, read those questions and find a suitable answer for them.

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    Subject: Guys…
    Author: robot101
    Date: Friday, 2002/07/12 – 18:51
    Debianplanet isn’t a political debating forum. This is beyond way OT. =)


    Robster is a monkey

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    Subject: Re: Guys…
    Author: d00d
    Date: Friday, 2002/07/12 – 19:05
    yeah. i get picky when it comes to this.. but i didn’t start eh

    and don’t tell me the links aren’t interesting 😉

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    Subject: humor, diversity, and the iron fist of political correctness
    Author: Overfiend
    Date: Thursday, 2002/07/11 – 21:57
    If I understand your reply correctly, you want to be politically uncorrect to promote freedom of speech.

    No, I reserve the right to express my sense of humor by wearing T-shirts that amuse me. The CCCP T-shirt amused me because I knew it would get a knee-jerk negative reaction out of some people here in the U.S. Most of them don’t even know about the history of Stalin’s purges, or could even tell you when Stalin was in power. Some of them might even think Stalin was a “good guy” because he “helped us defeat Hitler”. They just know “USA GOOD! USSR EVIL!”. This unthinking, uncritical, credulous attitude was cultivated by politicans like Ronald Reagan which took mythological, simplified, comic-book-style ciphers like the Empire in _Star Wars_ and mapped it onto the real world USSR (Reagan’s “evil empire”).

    Americans are not encouraged to think critically, they’re encouraged to conform to the ideological orthodoxy of the day. Our churches and public schools (and, some argue, corporate boardrooms) are institutions dedicated to the promotion of groupthink over independent, individual reasoning. The value of the First Amendment is a guarantee that those who challenge the orthodoxy will not be silenced for their speech.

    Just how far can you go then? Will you wear a “Support the DMCA”, a “Bin Laden saved me”, a “The KKK needs you”, a “HIV positive & homosexuals should be jailed”, a “Child pornography helps poor countries” or a “Hitler was right” Tshirt at DebConf3 or the next time you represent Debian at a roadshow?

    Your premise is false in that it draws an equivalence between all of these messages, and my CCCP T-shirt with each of them. I assert that these messages are not equivalent, and in any event they are not for me because I don’t find any of them funny as such (perhaps they would be if accompanied by an image that punctured the literal message of the text, however).

    Wearing a Tshirt representing a regim that suppressed all individual freedoms and killed millions of people doesn’t strike me as a very clever way to support freedom.

    I don’t know, people around here drive around with American flags on their cars, and they think they’re supporting freedom. The U.S. government has plenty of blood on its hands, and is suppressing the constitutional and due process rights of its citizens as we speak. Does the USA get a free pass for its offenses against human rights because it hasn’t managed to be the worst government ever? If the U.S. government were the best, noblest government in all of history, would that mean that its citizens would have no right to criticize it? If so, how would we know when our government fell from grace and became only the second-best government? Remember, we wouldn’t be allowed to talk about and quantify the offenses of our own government relative to some other government, because our own is “the best”. The same people who tell dissenting U.S. citizens to move elsewhere if they don’t “like it” are the some ones who tell “foreigners” not to criticize our country because they don’t live here. What these people really want is no dissent at all. I reject this facile, parochial, and malevolent dogma. I say the United States can be made a better place if we have the moral fiber to admit to the mistakes of our government and social institutions. Moronic, simple-minded, jingoistic patriotism is prominent on my list of mistakes that U.S. society makes. The U.S. government is founded on principles, not our flag, not the size and power of our military forces, and not the strength of our economy. I hold that the foundational principles of the U.S. government are more important than all of these things. I admit that most of my neighbors disagree. They want to buy cheap gas and the recreational goods that are advertised to them on television, support the right of the U.S. military to kill whoever it sees fit to preserve their power as consumers, and will wave the flag in support of our troops as they kill “ragheads” who stand in the way of Unocal’s oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea.

    Just because the 1st amendment gives you the right to do so doesn’t mean that it’s not completely stupid to do it.

    That is true, however the evaluation of what is “completely stupid” is also a subjective one. The preservation of an environment where people can express their subjective opinions is the whole point of the right to freedom of speech.

    You have the right to tell me to shut up.

    I have the right to ignore your request, and keep on talking.

    Were your position on “freedom” controlling, I doubt things world work that way.

    Sometimes the people who want to urge others to think are the ones who would need it most.

    And sometimes, a person is simply attempting to keep others from expressing points of view with which he is uncomfortable. Perhaps he fears those points of view will gain currency and threaten his dogmatic slumber, or perhaps he simply doesn’t understand the principles on which his country was founded.

    Anyway, we’re clearly talking past each other. You’re not up to the task of advocating the preservation of your human rights, let alone mine, so I’ll just have to do it for both of us. Don’t bother to thank me.

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    Subject: You *DO* know that communism
    Author: daniel@raging.dropbear.id.au
    Date: Thursday, 2002/07/11 – 05:41
    You *DO* know that communism and Stalin *aren’t* intrinsically linked, right? Stalin might be a subset of Communism, but Communism isn’t just about murder, repression, etc. Besides, as Colin (I think) pointed out, the US is just as bad, if not worse.
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    Subject: That ain communism
    Author: Mithrandir
    Date: Thursday, 2002/07/11 – 08:39
    You people who think that what Stalin did was communism seriously need to read some of Marx’ works. Stalin was a facist and a mass killer worse than most other dictators.

    Communism is based on equal value for all people and decentralization of power. This is quite different from what the USSR was.

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    Subject: Hence, “subset”. Ostensibly
    Author: daniel@raging.dropbear.id.au
    Date: Thursday, 2002/07/11 – 08:57
    Hence, “subset”. Ostensibly, Stalin was a Communist. Reality is, of course, different, but … yea. I think this is highly irrelevant for DP, anyway, thus:
    % echo ^V^D > thread
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    Subject: Wow, you need to stop trying
    Author: Kamion
    Date: Wednesday, 2002/07/10 – 19:28
    Wow, you need to stop trying to find things to get offended about. 🙂

    But hey, since I suspect half the point of the T-shirt was to annoy unthinking Americans (a noble goal), I doubt Branden will mind too much …


    Colin Watson

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    Subject: s/Americans/people/g
    Author: lordsutch
    Date: Thursday, 2002/07/11 – 03:30
    …and apparently it succeeded in its goal 🙂
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    Subject: No absolutes, please…
    Author: gwolf
    Date: Wednesday, 2002/07/10 – 15:47
    I have yet to know of a regime that can’t be catalogued as represive or murderous… Odds are you are American – Outside your country, the USA is viewed just as the USSR was viewed by you some years ago, but without regard for its poor or workers. And yes, I might also be very short-sighted here. I would not like to live in the USSR – I have many Cuban friends, and have been to Cuba… That’s not something I want. But… Please, name just one government which does not squash oposition given a chance.
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    Subject: Re: Nice Tshirt Branden
    Author: gowlin
    Date: Wednesday, 2002/07/10 – 13:12
    I think you probably misunderstand the reference.

    But hey, everything is open to misinterpretation. Take it as you will.

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