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    Debian GNU/kFreeBSD Live CD
    Submitted by wobin on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 – 13:58
    DebianRobert Millan made an announcement today on behalf of the Debian GNU/kFreeBSD porting team: “I’m proud to announce that after some happy hacking time, we have finished preparing a live CD rescue system. You can use it to try GNU/kFreeBSD without the hassle of installing, but it is now also the recommended install method (until we port d-i).”
    Category: News

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    Subject: Is there interest in a FreeBSD/Debian mix?
    Author: wouter@jabber.org
    Date: Thursday, 2004/07/01 – 23:57
    Is there a ‘market’ for a mix of GNU-ified FreeBSD and Debian?

    I run both Debian and FreeBSD, but I don’t see why I should run a FreeBSD that does not carry the specifics and vision of its core developers. With other words, if I want GNU/Debian, I install Debian; if I want FreeBSD, I will install FreeBSD.

    So, out of curiosity, who runs this hybrid and why?

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    Subject: I have no idea if there is a
    Author: andrel
    Date: Friday, 2004/07/02 – 16:18
    I have no idea if there is a market for it. If hackers want to work on it, that is reason enough for it to exist.

    Having Debian run on a kernel other than Linux does give us a plan B against those who claim the Linux kernel has legal problems. (Plan A, of course, is to rebut those claims.)

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    Subject: and then there’s the politics
    Author: JoeBuck
    Date: Friday, 2004/07/02 – 17:35
    I wonder if this system will play a role in the ongoing skirmish over credit, and whether Linus gets too much because people call the whole system “Linux”. If so, that would be too bad. But this does show the kind of system that the GNU project might have had ten years ago if they hadn’t made the Hurd mistake (or 12 years ago if there hadn’t been the AT&T vs UC Berkeley lawsuit).

    Now, there are lots of good ideas in the Hurd, but since the goal of the GNU project was to quickly produce an entirely free system, they should have gone with a proven design, not a researchy one.

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    Subject: on that subject…
    Author: JonD
    Date: Sunday, 2004/07/04 – 15:37
    I would love to see a Hurd livecd. I think many more people would be interested in taking the plunge and trying hurd if it was a non-committal task to try it out.
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    Subject: I think so
    Author: nyu
    Date: Friday, 2004/07/02 – 00:38
    Well, each kernel and userland has its own advantages and disadvantages. From my POV, the kernel of FreeBSD (kFreeBSD for short) is well known for its good stability, security and performance. And the Debian GNU userland for its flexibility and scalability.

    This is not a matter of the vision of core developers. For example GNU “core developers” would argue that the real GNU system (with the Hurd) empowers the freedom of users in a way that monolithic kernels can’t do. Actualy everyone can argue per’s system is the best because this or that, but at the end what we find out is that there are “that many heads, that many hats” (catalan expression, I assume you get what I mean).

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    Subject: Wha?
    Author: SFNative
    Date: Thursday, 2004/07/01 – 14:14
    I hadn’t heard anything about this. Very cool.

    I don’t suppose anyone has heard about somebody doing a GNU/kOpenBSD. That would approach wet dream status.

    ~Nothing exceeds like excess~

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    Subject: Hurd/LiveCD
    Author: tca
    Date: Wednesday, 2004/07/07 – 10:45
    You can check this – Bootable Hurd Live-CD.
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    Subject: thanks
    Author: JonD
    Date: Wednesday, 2004/07/07 – 12:12
    Thank you – very interesting.
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    Subject: only the kernel different?
    Author: JonD
    Date: Sunday, 2004/07/04 – 15:39
    A GNU/*BSD operating system differs only in the precise kernel being used; since the userland tools are GNU. My question is, what is significantly different about the openbsd kernel over the freebsd one to make it more desirable?

    From a BSD newbie.

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    Subject: So any added security benefit
    Author: SFNative
    Date: Thursday, 2004/07/08 – 15:08
    So any added security benefits one gets from using OpenBSD (as opposed to FreeBSD) wouldn’t exist in a GNU implementation?
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    Subject: What security benefits are th
    Author: JonD
    Date: Thursday, 2004/07/08 – 15:22
    What security benefits are those? Any known problems in debian are plugged sharpish, same with openbsd. Their claim to fame is Only one remote hole in the default install, in more than 8 years!.. but look at what packages/services are installed as part of the default install.
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    Subject: Well, my question was geared
    Author: SFNative
    Date: Friday, 2004/07/09 – 14:20
    Well, my question was geared more towards an OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD implemetation. I honestly do not know the answer to that.

    As for the difference between Debian and OpenBSD the number of default services running in OpenBSD is definitely an advantage. Just run an nmap scan against a default OpenBSD install and a default Debian install. There’s also the built-in cryptography and things like W^X and ProPolice. I know I can get my Debian box to the same state before deploying it (well, maybe not the kernel stuff, anybody know about that?) but an OpenBSD box just comes that way.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love Debian. I use it almost exclusively. The main reason I don’t use OpenBSD is that maintaining it is like pulling teeth. However, were Debian to have the out of the box security that OpenBSD has, it could be leaps and bounds above what it is now.

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    Subject: kOpenBSD not under way
    Author: gwolf
    Date: Thursday, 2004/07/01 – 17:03
    Some time ago, there was work done by Andreas Schuldei (IIRC) towards getting Debian working on OpenBSD. In that period, I was also a very deeply convinced OpenBSD user. One of the main problems was the terrible attitude of the OBSD community – They publicize their work as the freest OS available, but if you try to do something with OBSD that doesn’t follow their favorite way of thinking, they will flame you to death, instead of helping you work with the system (as has happened with the FreeBSD and NetBSD teams) to make it suit your (bizarre but legitimate) needs.
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    Subject: Why port d-i?
    Author: walles
    Date: Thursday, 2004/07/01 – 08:49
    Why do they want to port the Debian Installer? With a live CD they can write the installer any way they want, and it will run in a fully functional environment. With d-i they have to use udebs, and will run in a somewhat limited environment.

    To me, sticking with a live CD and just skipping the Debian Installer seems like the way the rest of Debian should be going as well.

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    Subject: Why d-i
    Author: MrHanky
    Date: Thursday, 2004/07/01 – 09:27
    Installing from a live CD might be good when your computer has a CD-drive. That’s not always the case. We need an installer that supports booting off a network, USB drives, floppies (some people use old computers for firewalls and such). An installer needs to be able to install and set up a useful environment, and should do that and not much more. If you need a full featured environment while installing, use one of the live CDs. If not, d-i is usually the one you want.

    But to return to the topic: Anyone tried this GNU/kFreeBSD yet? Comments?

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    Subject: Re: Why d-i
    Author: walles
    Date: Thursday, 2004/07/01 – 15:55
    I don’t really see why Live CDs would have to be limited to CDs. If you can boot from some medium (be it floppies, CD, network, keyboard, whatever), you should be able to boot something “live” from there just as well as an installer.

    A live [whatever] would have the benefit of demonstrating to the user that it’s possible to set up a usable environment on the machine before the user has to commit to anything.

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    Subject: wdi
    Author: MrHanky
    Date: Friday, 2004/07/02 – 13:59
    Sure, it’s a good idea for any system that the live CD can work on. But if you want Debian to make your 486 with 32 MB RAM work as a router, the live CD approach is just bloat. You don’t want a usable environment on a router. Debian is supposed to be flexible, but a live CD isn’t. A live CD would work fine for most desktop installations, and some servers, but not routers, embedded devices — well, just about any specialised setup you might come up with.

    Ideally, an installer should use as little resources as the lightest possible install. None of the free *nixes do that — I recently used a 486SX laptop with 8 MB RAM for vim/LaTeX with FreeBSD. It worked allrightish (quite slow, but I mostly compiled the document on a modern computer), but I had the OS on a better computer before transferring the disk to the 486 (the newer computer broke down, and that’s the reason why I used a 486 in the first place). Even FreeBSD doesn’t install on less than 16 MB.

    Now consider the live CD. Would 64 MB be enough?

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