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    Debian menu system should be GNU/Linux standard!
    Contributed by Deno on Wednesday, March 07 @ 18:36:59 GMT

    Linux
    For now, only debian-based distributions and Linux-Mandrake use it, but IMHO this system is much better than anything else what is available now. Why not push it as a standard?
    One tip: Mandrakesoft has worked a lot on a menu system during last six months, snd I think that You should at least take a look at a result when LM 8.0 is out. I don't see any reason why you should not for instance take the new "Menudrake" and use it in Debian.

     
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  • "Debian menu system should be GNU/Linux standard!" | Login/Create Account | 8 comments
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    The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.

    Re: Debian menu system should be GNU/Linux standard! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 07 @ 20:06:06 GMT

    I think great Debian features like update-menus (and all the other update-* tools) can only work effectively with a strong policy enforced by a centralised bug tracking system. Anyone who's used RPM packages will know what a shitfight they are -- config files everywhere. Still, it would be nice.

    You can lead a horse to water... but it takes a block and tackle to drown the bastard.

    [ Reply ]


    That's not fair (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 07 @ 20:56:04 GMT

    It's true that RPM packages have been held to a different standard, but that's the whole point. They have FAR fewer developers working with a very different focus. The point of RedHat has been to get a shrink-wrapped GNU/Linux distribution in the computers of as many people as possible. The point of Debian has been to "Do It Right". Both projects have been successful!

    A Debian developer will change the location of config files to fit the standard. RedHat doesn't have time to do that, they have a fancy installer to work on.

    Adding a menu suggestion to the LSB would be a great way for upstream developers to have an option to get the benefits of being integrated into a distribution, and retain the same look across distributions, possibly even non-Linux distributions. If there's a menu standard that isn't Linux-specific, BSD, Solaris and other packages could use it too.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Debian menu system should be GNU/Linux standard! (Score: 1)
    by joeyh on Wednesday, March 07 @ 20:48:58 GMT
    (User Info) http://kitenet.net/~joey/


    One tip: Mandrakesoft has worked a lot on a menu system during last six
    Your Account months, snd I think that You should at least take a
    look at a result when LM 8.0 is
    Submit News out. I don't see any reason why you should not for
    instance take the new "Menudrake"
    Stats and use it in Debian.

    I don't understand. Has mandrake forked menu (if so, WHY?), or are they not
    using menu after all?

    Anyway, on the larger subject, menu can still use some work. It uses a
    rather nonintuitive file for menu files (a pseudo-rfc-822 format would be
    much easier to write and parse), and it is quite slow. Also, the
    menu-methods files use a wacky pseudo-language which you have to learn to
    write one, and is not greatly flexible. I have occasionally considered
    rewriting menu to use a better format of menu file, and to use an
    interpreted language for the menu-methods files. That would make it easier
    to write them, make them more flexible, and probably also speed them up
    since general purpose interpreted languages have many people working to
    optimize them, when compared to one-off pseudo-languages. Unfortunatly,
    I've never had the time to do this.

    The other thing that is essential to menu is the menu hierarchy, as
    detailed in debian policy. Without that, in a broader linux world, menu
    would quickly become a mess. The menu hierarchy is far from perfect (I
    should know; I was the principle drafter of it), but if menu were to become
    a linux standard, it would all be for naught if the menu hierarchy were
    ignored.

    [ Reply ]


    Mandrale hasn't forked (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, March 09 @ 01:26:12 GMT

    ... just built a GTK gui menu editor.

    Makes it possible for ordinary users to edit their menus. No harm in that, and might be a worthwhile addition.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Debian menu system should be GNU/Linux standard! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 07 @ 22:30:09 GMT

    the whole point of menu is to satisfy all the different standards wm's use. kde and gnome agreed on one, but others are still different. instead of making menu a standard, there should be a menu standard all wm's should use.

    also, conectiva 6.1 will be released very soon using the debian menu system (and the alternatives system too, in addition to apt which they use since 6.0). they implemented it differently from mandrake tho (more similiar to debian).

    (ftp://ftp.conectiva.com.br/pub/conectiva/snapshot/)

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Debian menu system should be GNU/Linux standard! (Score: 1)
    by Integral on Thursday, March 08 @ 17:19:12 GMT
    (User Info)

    instead of making menu a standard, there should be a menu standard all wm's should use.

    Do you understand why different window managers use different menu formats?

    If you can propose a format that Enlightenment, Sawmill, and scwm can all use (with the ability to access all the functionality of the window manager), I'll be very impressed.

    Or all the window-managers could just be able to convert some foreign format to their own format..oh, wait, that's what menu does..

    Daniel

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Debian menu system should be GNU/Linux standard! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, March 08 @ 19:12:46 GMT

    If you can propose a format that Enlightenment, Sawmill, and scwm can all use (with the ability to access all the functionality of the window manager), I'll be very impressed.

    http://webcvs.kde.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~ checkout~/kdelibs/kio/DESKTOP_ENTRY_STANDARD?rev=1.9

    Or all the window-managers could just be able to convert some foreign format to their own format..oh, wait, that's what menu does..

    yes, and i love it; however, instead of having a standard for each wm and a standard tool to make them show the same apps in their menu, it would (in my opinion) be better if they all showed the .desktop entries in a standard directory (like /etc/X11/applnk). adding support for a standard dir like that in a wm is as easy as adding support for KDE or GNOME menus, since the only difference is the path where the files are stored. the file format is the same.

    [ Reply ]


    Two Travellers perishing in Snow (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, March 08 @ 14:02:10 GMT

    Two Travellers perishing in Snow

    The Forests as they froze

    Together heard them strengthening

    Each other with the words

    That Heaven if Heaven -- must contain

    What Either left behind

    And then the cheer too solemn grew

    For language, and the wind

    Long steps across the features took

    That Love had touched the Morn

    With reverential Hyacinth --

    The taleless Days went on

    Till Mystery impatient drew

    And those They left behind

    Led absent, were procured of Heaven

    As Those first furnished, said --

    -----------------

    Anonymous Emily Dickinson LIVES!

    [ Reply ]


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