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    Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ...
    Posted on Wednesday, April 11 @ 12:23:46 BST

    Debian
    There has been much discussion going on about what should be included in woody and its install discs. It is highly likely they will use 2.4 kernels bringing in many benefits and also problems. Would you like to see the improved ISA Plug 'n' Play support in the install, or perhaps ReiserFS, RAID or LVM? Or in the future looking towards sid: XFS or Ext3 and possibly the inclusion of an autodetect script like discover? Which parts of the install do you like and which aggrevate you? Hopefully your comments will go to make a better Debian.

     
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  • "Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ..." | Login/Create Account | 87 comments
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    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 12:51:31 BST

    I would really like to see XFS or ReiserFS supported, It would really help on the server front not to have to run FSCK when your samba server dies for what ever reason. (managment too cheap to buy a UPS)

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 19:50:41 BST


    As an anonymous Linux newbie, I want an easy (possibly but not necessarily graphical) and COMPLETE installer!

    Lift it directly from Progeny if you have to, but if it takes someone like me (experienced DOS/Win/VMS/MVS/Mac user) longer than an hour to get a basic working system up and running (including a GUI, sound drivers, and video drivers), no other improvements are worth a damn!

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 17:35:43 BST

    First off, this isn't meant as a flame or anything negative..

    As a newbie who wants a easy and complete installer, like the one in progeny, why don't you use progeny? One of the things i love about debian is that the installer is very basic and flexible. Sure, one could argue that it could be made easier without loosing any of the flexibility, but that probably won't happen. It takes me about 15 minutes (assuming a fat pipe and a fast cpu) to get a debian box to whatever state i'm looking for; and that includes a headless networked box with a 100 meg hard drive. Why should i have to give that up so debian can emulate other distributions that already fill your needs? easy is not always best.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 19:09:53 BST


    My answer is that I don't know. I might end up using Progeny, but I'd prefer to use straight Debian on "moral" grounds.

    I have never tried installing Debian, so it may not be the nightmare that I have read about. I certainly will try the regular installer before resorting to Progeny or another distribution.

    My point above was that, from everything I read, Debian is reknown for an UNfriendly installation. I don't think it's impossible to have a friendly installation WITHOUT losing the power and flexibility that you love. Do you think it has to be one or the other?

    Anyway, thanks for the reply.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 23:13:05 BST

    Do you think it has to be one or the other?

    Yes. Most people can't deal with choices or information; the primary goal of most user interface design is either limiting the available options that the user has or hiding information from them.

    Limiting choices and hiding information is kind of diametrically opposed to providing flexibility and power.

    Daniel

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 05:46:40 BST

    I like Debian's approach of revealing as much information as possible

    and giving choice to the installers, however that is still only an ongoing project as far as I can tell.

    1. If Debian installer software was implemented using that approach, then the first choice it should give to the installer is whether he/she wants a two(three?:))-step installation or a detailed one.

    2. If reasoning (explaining the consequences of choices) and/or giving as much information as possible was implemented then a "Why?", "Help", "Preview", "Explain" or similar choices would be there in each stepp during the installation.

    Besides the above, I hope initial RAID setup will get into woody.

    For anyone insterested, I have made potato RAID images containing

    2.2.19, Software RAID 0.9 and built-in support for Adaptec(DPT) 2100S/3200S SCSI Raid cards using the latest and most stable (2.2 kernel) patch from Adaptec.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 15:16:58 BST


    I think that's a bit extreme, but I can't really comment more until I've tried the regular installer.

    I tend to disagree with you, as did the previous replier -- just because the INITIAL appearance of an interface is friendly/hidesthedetails, doesn't mean it can't ALSO have an option to "click here to see what's really going on" or "press F4 for a command line" or "press ALT-C" to modify the selected package pool. Etc.

    Not to be blasphemous, but Windows application install programs do this all the time, although not to the level required for an OS installation.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by chewie on Friday, April 13 @ 19:15:06 BST
    (User Info) http://www.wookimus.net

    I'm replying to this level of the comment instead of the grossly nested levels to save a bit on space. 😉 Where you find frustration in not having a heuristic hardware detector, X-server setup, and dummy desktop install, I find usefulness. Let me explain.

    I've installed a number of minimalistic firewalls and file servers over the years of my use with Debian. I don't even go through dselect. I go through the necessary steps to copy the base install to disk and set up my network connection. Then, I quit. Using apt-get, I install only the packages I want, when I want them. Even my full blown workstation was installed in this manner, partially because I could upgrade to testing/unstable immediately and only have to download ~40 MB of new packages initially.

    Regardless, there is a place for both styles of installation: the full-blown, newbie-friendly, GUI workstation install, and the nuts-n-bolts, control-freak, minimalistic base install. You can have the former; I'll take the latter.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 20:36:00 BST

    Agreed. Certainly a place for both styles, although GUI notwithstanding I don't see why a single installer couldn't handle both techniques.

    By the way, I'm a command-line kind of person; I'm just hoping for an easy installation the FIRST couple of times I do a Debian install, to get over my expected newbie shock. In a year or so I would expect I'd be doing it your way.

    ["Grossly nested"? There were only a a few comments.]

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 13:15:53 BST

    Yes, the things i would like to see in woody are ReiserFS and DevFS.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by wolfjb on Wednesday, April 11 @ 13:44:24 BST
    (User Info)

    I would really like to see a 2.4 kernel, LVM, (ReiserFS|XFS), IPTables (the new firewalling stuff in 2.4). I would like to be able to upgrade my system to use ReiserFS or XFS when I upgrade to woody (I don't even know if you can do that, but it would sure be cool) I would like to see X 4.0.3+ with working DRI support. When I installed 4.0.2 from debs the DRI stuff seemed to be there, but just didn't work. I had to get CVS DRI and compile it to get it working. I'd rather use debs.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by coba on Wednesday, April 11 @ 14:20:11 BST
    (User Info)

    :-),basicly I just want everything to be the latest and greatest:

    2.4 kernel, Xfree 4.0.3, KDE 2.1., Gnome 1.4, and ReiserFs, LVM

    Oh, and OpenOffice and plex86 out of the box, to top it off

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 01:13:13 BST

    Being a Linux newbie I'd have to agree on additions such as OpenOffice and plex86 and I would probably add Wine to that list as well. It would be great to have a nice graphical installtion where at the end I can have a clean and clear GUI (running my fav .. KDE) and have productivity tools such as OpenOffice right there ready to run.

    Of course what goes under the hood, although hidden is important. 2.4 kernel, XFS and ReiserFS are a must (as long as XFS is ready ... I haven't kept up with how it is going).

    Also another personal favourite would be a the latest and greatest PostgreSQL and even a version of Interbase as long as there aren't any legal issues (don't think so now). Just a couple of db alternatives to mySql (which is pretty limited).

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 14:42:58 BST

    I would like ReiserFS and GNOME 1.4 or 2.0. If possible, I would like to be able to easily change the partition format to ReiserFS.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, September 16 @ 08:06:01 BST

    reiserfs uses partition type 83 just like ext2. in mandrake's partitioner, it has seperate "types" but that is only so it knows what filesystem to make.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 17:38:34 BST

    I would like to see Apache's Jakarta-tomcat will be deployed in woody.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 08:41:56 BST

    ...that would be great!

    Add to that RaserFS and the latest stable enlightenment stuff.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 01:28:13 BST

    Rasterman, I know that this is you, come on, you expect us to believe e17 will be done by then?

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 22:16:08 BST

    Done by when?

    Ok, time is not that important, when woody has the quality, stability and features that gives it it's brand (Debian), then it's time to unleashe it to the world.

    I'm sure that Rasterman (I'm not, as you can se, the man) has a simular philosophy in his making.

    If standard packages gets frozen by the end of this year, the maybe just maybe Laurence J. Lane gets the opportunitie to put it in.

    [ Reply ]


    borrow some stuff. (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 17:41:55 BST

    We've got commercial distros taking advantage of debian, why doesn't debian take advantage of some of what they provide? Borrow some goodies!

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 18:13:05 BST

    Kernel 2.4 / at least ReiserFS would be cool...

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 18:45:36 BST

    Since no one has mentioned it yet -- RAID installer.

    The process of getting RAID installed and working properly is difficult to say the least. More so if you are trying to boot to a RAID / partition.

    I know there are pros and cons to this type of setup but making it easier to install RAID would make a big difference for getting Debian installed on more production servers.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, July 19 @ 12:25:28 BST

    Yes i agree, we have here about 25 server with debian and raid5 or raid1 and all are installed with the raid manualy.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 19:20:22 BST

    What I would like to see in Woody are more in the UE and what can affect said 'experience.

    (1) KDE 2.2 (if possible, KDE 2.2.1 for obvious reasons) because of:

    (1.1) the enhanced printing architecture that brings MacOS & Windows (cough!)-level of control & quality over printing to *nix. In other words, we should be able to add/remore printers while still in KDE, as well as tweak settings such as pages-per-sheet, resolution and whatnot while still in the GUI.

    (1.2) the enhanced multimedia that is forecasted for that version of KDE;

    (2) XF86 4.03 (or higher) because more cards are supported than with 4.02, because of anti-aliasing, etc.

    (3) an installer that lets me choose between GNOME and KDE, only install my desktop of choice and not something like TWM instead...

    (4) some really good and really usefull graphical front-ends (i.e. GNOME *and* KDE) for the whole apt and debconf suites.

    (5) of course, a 2.4-level kernel would be appreciated, but is not an absolute priority. What counts is a *good* user experience, not the fact that we have a 2.4 kernel just for the sake of it.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, September 16 @ 08:10:01 BST

    you are asking too much from debian. there are too many users who like things being more advanced. If you want an easier version of debian, just use xandaros (corel) i don't want to see the same stupification that happened to windows users after win95 happen to debian users.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 21:26:07 BST

    I would definately like to see reiserfs and openldap 2.0.7 included.

    -Matt

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 21:27:18 BST

    One thing: Have, on the first CD, a GOOD package selection. I implore you, look at Linux-Mandrake to see what you should put on the first CD. It has:

    *KDE

    *GNOME

    *Many other windowmanagers

    *Servers of all kinds

    *Development tools

    *WINE

    *Other interesting emulators

    *Little worthless crap that .1% want or need, like PVM and other clustering stuff (on the first potato CD!)

    It says on their site that the first CD contains stuff that is most often used, but c'mon, no Enlightenment!

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 18:18:37 BST

    Well, Enlightenment isn't on the first Mandrake CD. At least not on 7.2. It might be on an earlier version, though. There are about three other WM's besides Sawfish on the first CD, but not enlightenment. It's on the second CD.

    But yes, being able to get a full installation for the most common setups on one CD so that only one install CD is needed in most cases would be very nice.

    Ben Porter.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, September 16 @ 08:13:33 BST

    don't compare mandrake to debian. you should probably buy the 3 dollar cds anyway to support the debian community. also, if you have broadband, just download the boot disks and do a net install (you'll end up downloading less than 600mb on average)

    [ Reply ]


    Mozilla >M18 (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 22:43:17 BST

    Please?

    It's not too much to ask, is it? Takuto Kitame (if I spelled correctly)'s packages of the newer Mozilla's (say, since the new version numbering) have been around for ages now, and they're quite alright. Besides, M18 is broken at many points, amongst which SSL, and M18 breaks Nautilus which _is_ in Woody.

    Then again, I'd also like to have a Nautilus that opens .tar.gz files and supports a GtkHTML view, just like Nautilus did in the good ole days. Whatever happened to that?

    Greets,

    Pflipp

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 22:45:03 BST

    I'd like to see an XFree 3.3.6 option, or a way to run UT via glide2 on XFree 4.0.x. It is awesome on 3.3.6, but without glide2 support on 4.0.x and being forced to use OpenGL I had to go back to potato.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 23:01:51 BST

    I thought Woody had already been frozen? No?

    Well, Santa...

    • Kernel 2.2.18 with USB backport
    • Kernel 2.4.3 with ReiserFS & RAID by default (SELECTABLE Kernel at install time for "safety" and "shiny new toys")
    • XFree86 4.02+
    • Gnome 1.4
    • KDE 2.01 (gotta love that Konqueror)
    • ISA PNP should be a must-have
    • apt-get 0.5 (PLEASE) with some strong hints incorporated for the "just this one little SID package" crowd

    As for aggrevations, well... either make the task- .debs useful or delete them. I'd say delete them, because even if you put one on there's no clue as to what to do next to *use* the task.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 11 @ 23:54:34 BST

    ReiserFS and XFS.. and JFS if it's stable-ish yet

    ext3 should not be included in any stable distro IMHO

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 11:49:40 BST

    I´m just curious, but _why-. no ext3? I have it running here on several machines and it does the job better than ReiserFS for me (since Reiser does not work on Big Endian)

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by nero on Saturday, April 14 @ 04:54:27 BST
    (User Info)

    Lack of maturity.. ext3 is ext2 with journalling hacked on.

    ReiserFS/XFS/JFS are all designed from the ground up to be Journalling FS's..

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by abo on Thursday, April 12 @ 00:49:41 BST
    (User Info) http://sourceforge.net/users/abo/

    Since we are talking kernel, I'll limit my comments to kernel stuff...

    I want a pre-compiled base kernel that will be as lean as possible, but support everything. I don't want scsi drivers loaded on an ide system, but I want it to work on a pure scsi system. I want alsa modules, pcmcia modules, 3dfx modules, etc all available as pre-compiled debs that work with the base kernel.

    That means compile as little as possible directly into the kernel, compile every possible module, and use an initrd (using the lightest possible fs, perhaps romfs or cramfs) to load the required driver and fs modules for mounting /.

    In an ideal world, a single kernel would meet all needs. In a less than ideal world, a few different base kernels with different compiled-in options are needed for different applications, but additional modules for esoteric devices will work with any base kernel. In the crap world we currently have, different kernels are needed for different applications, and every kernel needs it's own seperately compiled add-in modules. I want that fixed.

    If one universal precompiled kernel is not possible, I want a small number of base kernels for applications like "workstation", "server", or "gateway". I then want add-in modules like "alsa", "pcmcia", and "3dfx" that work with any of the base kernels. I'd also like the ability to compile my own add-in modules for the base kernels without having to re-compile my own kernel.

    If none of this is possible (and it should be), then we must face facts and make compiling a suitable kernel a part of the normal install.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 01:10:03 BST

    2.4.x kernel and reiserfs aware install are really the two must-haves.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 05:56:50 BST

    Kernel 2.4.3

    Xfree 4.x

    KDE 2.1.1

    ReiserFS

    The last version of Mozilla

    Netscape 6 (if the licence permit)

    The installation "a la potato" should be a good choice.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 05:58:08 BST

    A port collection like *BSD. apt-get really suck !

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Saturday, April 14 @ 00:46:45 BST

    IMHO Debian packages are better then *BSD ports. I've been *BSD user for same time as Debian user (FreeBSD at work, Debian at home) an finally decided to switch to Debian because of its packages. Debian packages are more stable while it is not unlickly to find proken FreeBSD ports. For example KDE ports are broken in FreeBSD already for month or so. Also Debian packages cover more software then FreeBSD packages.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 06:01:33 BST

    When I install Debian, I want to be able to install the smallest system possible (no x, no compiler, etc). For this, potato do a good job. This also should be possible with woody.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 06:04:55 BST

    A system that is stable as rock and more secure than OpenBSD.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 12:54:25 BST

    I think seeing things like ext3/xfs support in woody would be extremely useful, esp. since fscking a large hdd (30-40gb) takes a while. Atm, ReiserFS, which I personally despise is the only system supported. Kernel 2.4.x is definitely a must, since its iptables are actually easier than ipchains.

    Along whith that should come a better installer, that should allow the following:

    • ability to create a set of automatic install disks
      (or boot image, for sunlike machines) that run
      without user intervention.
    • reordering of the tasks, allowing an install over
      the network (nfs, http, ftp) without actually 'hacking' the script.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 14:44:56 BST

    Definitely ReiserFS, and preferably LVM too.

    What annoys me about the installer is when there isn't any help text for a module - in which case how do you know whether to install it or not?

    What I love about the installer is that you can go back or skip forwards, and ALT-F2 to another console to fix/investigate things. More than once I have used it as a rescue disc. Don't ever change that, please!

    Hardware auto-detection is tricky but a must. If at the end of your install you can't get X running and your sound card doesn't work, that just about sucks all the fun out of the whole thing.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by omwich (omwich@spam-proof.edu.cn) on Thursday, April 12 @ 15:51:41 BST
    (User Info)

    I have seen that Eazel is partnering with RedHat and Solaris to bring their users the long awaited Nautilus. I have used it and it is a very advanced file browser, with nice integration features. Also, I have used Debian's GNOME and Ximian GNOME, and because Ximian didn't work so well with my system, I had to get rid of it, but coming back to Debian's plain vanilla GNOME definitely felt like a big downgrade. Can't Ximian and Debian work together to produce a solid GNOME 1.4 (or 2.0 if it's ever ready) desktop with Nautilus integrated? I would love to have a Ximian Desktop with Nautilus seamlessly integrated (not this Nautilus Desktop thing that gets plastered over the GNOME desktop currently), and Nautilus should start automatically (possibility to disable for GNOME MC fans). Also RedCarpet would be nice, and I would like to see Deity (Deity-GTK) in stable. It is a nice tool for people who hate a lot of typing. Still, RedCarpet looked amazing the first time I saw it, I just hope that it integrates well with Debian and doesn't "break" a pure Debian system.

    Also, I have been running KDE because I simply like the Anti-Aliased fonts. C'mon, they're gorgeous! It would be nice if Debian allowed users to install the souped up GNOME or the KDE with font-smoothing enabled by default as choices from the Debian installer. I have no problem with a non-graphical installer, as long as it does a good job detecting appropriate settings (still doesn't like my NVidia RIVA TNT2 card).

    Whatever filesystems can be reasonably assured to be "stable" as an alternative to Ext2 would be nice. Even if we only get ReiserFS with RAID, I would be happy.

    Also, Debian needs to have easier setup for 3 things: 1) Printing, especially network printing (even using Samba) because many offices have Windows NT print queues, and so do many universities. 2) Easier installation of a full working Samba, with GUI tools that make it easy to configure (there are so many) or maybe to ask some questions during dpkg configuring to set it up approriately. Client-side Samba support is weak in help files and ease of setup. 3) Sound support (and Video support) should be automatically detected and setup during installation. These basic devices are so prevalent now, and users should have a complete working system after the installation is done. They shouldn't need to tweak a bunch of things later (or at least make that part as minimal as possible).

    Mozilla needs to be at 0.8.1 or higher (1.0 if available at the time) and forget the whole issue of crypto support. Put it in the Non-US areas. People who want it can decide for themselves. The rest of us want to install a recent Mozilla without adding lines to our sources.list.

    These kinds of applications make some Debian users look with jealousy upon a fresh installation of Mandrake 7.2 (or 8.0). I like what Progeny is doing, but I am not familiar enough with GRUB to try it on my system. The next version of Debian shoudl provide the choice of GRUB or LILO. I have wanted to switch to GRUB for some time, Debian should support it.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by omwich (omwich@spam-proof.edu.cn) on Thursday, April 12 @ 15:59:24 BST
    (User Info)

    Could we get a later version of Java (like 1.3.0_02) Runtime and Dev Kit since Sun already offers it for download for Linux x86 at their site? I am not sure what the status on Java for other platforms is though... But why should we be stuck with an old version. Same goes for Mozilla. Make sure that people know that Mozilla == Netscape 6 (effectively) and that it is their new Browser.

    Also, their should be a universal browser plugins folder, or else make convenience packages for Flash 5.0r47 and RealPlayer 8.0 that installs their plugins for Mozilla as well as Netscape (since I put them there manually, and they do work). Same goes for Konqueror and Opera.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 19:29:14 BST

    These are not free software. IMHO, Debian should

    continue to promote open source, so Debian

    shoul ONLY include open source software (the developper can do a rm -fr non-free on all mirror !)

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by omwich (omwich@spam-proof.edu.cn) on Saturday, April 14 @ 06:47:47 BST
    (User Info)

    True these are now free software, but:

    Macromedia did release the source code to flash at one point (not sure if what is currently available is similar to what they released, though) and if they bother to offer the tar files of it, why not just have a contrib deb package that installs it.

    There has already been a RealPlayer installer for some time. Real even has a debian package on their site, but it is only for Sparc users, not other platforms. I'm not sure why. But the fact remains, the software is there.

    Besides, since many streaming media sites use WMA/WMV (Windows Media) or MOV (Quicktime) or RM (RealPlayer) RealPlayer is the only viable commercial alternative which gives users access to those sites.

    Some internet radio stations will never use free software, they need to insure the integrity of their advertisments (they need to earn money, or we'd have no music!)

    The software is available. Debian need not encourage its use. They can let the users know that there is somethign wrong with the license, not the software, and that they should demand the creators to open their source. In the mean time, limiting what can be installed benefits no one. You do not need to put the non-free in your sources.list

    But my grandmother, she wants realplayer!

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Saturday, April 21 @ 22:34:32 BST

    There's a GPLed Flash player out there. Somebody said they were going to package it a couple of months ago - I'm not sure what the status on that is.

    The problem with Java for a long time was that it wasn't even distributable in non-free due to Sun's licence. I hear that may be changing soon, though, so we might get a newer Java in non-free.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 23:29:23 BST

    Who who!!

    That would realy hurt many a feelings, don't get me wrong here, I strongly believe in the open source community and it's goals, but I don't believe that the debian community will ever sweep out java packages or somthing equally important, just because it's not totaly free or hold of jakarta for that matter.

    I't really would not be to promote open source.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 12 @ 19:31:44 BST

    Please keep Debain hard to install ... Do not have a stupid installation program à la red hat ...

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by omwich (omwich@spam-proof.edu.cn) on Saturday, April 14 @ 06:54:58 BST
    (User Info)

    What do you mean by "hard to install?"

    Why should anything be harder to do than necessary?

    If you mean, don't add unnecessary fluff like graphical modes, maybe there can be two install CD's in the boxed set, one for graphical approach with lots of common X apps on it, the other, a more traditional Debian installer.

    The graphics are not the enemy. I don't see what is wrong with them. People think visually, and there is a lot more flexibility in a graphical installer design. Or do what SuSE has done, and make graphical/text-only installation and later configuration an option. That is the best of both worlds.

    That's just my opinion. I'd like to hear your reasoning.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, August 03 @ 17:04:33 BST

    Debian is not hard to install. All you have to do is keep pressing the ENTER buttion.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 00:52:35 BST

    I would like to see a "lite" version, like that of say Vectorlinux that could be downloaded and installed as an iso or bzipped image. After installing such a package, then one could use apt to get any other packages they so desired.

    I have a fetish for installiing Linux distributions and have a partition designed just for such a purpose so as not to continue to trash my main working distribution. I have installed both Vectorlinux and peanut linux lately and was pleasantly surprised at the amount of stuff that could be crammed into a manageable package. But I am used to and like the Debian setup for my configuration files and executables. (Where does the opt directory come from anyway?)

    In any event, I think that such a Debian package would go over very well. It would with me, anyway, but all my brothers think I am slightly strange, but then again, you know what kind of non-os they run.

    Glenn

    [ Reply ]


    Lite version of Debian? (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 00:53:26 BST

    I would like to see a "lite" version, like that of say Vectorlinux that could be downloaded and installed as an iso or bzipped image. After installing such a package, then one could use apt to get any other packages they so desired.

    I have a fetish for installiing Linux distributions and have a partition designed just for such a purpose so as not to continue to trash my main working distribution. I have installed both Vectorlinux and peanut linux lately and was pleasantly surprised at the amount of stuff that could be crammed into a manageable package. But I am used to and like the Debian setup for my configuration files and executables. (Where does the opt directory come from anyway?)

    In any event, I think that such a Debian package would go over very well. It would with me, anyway, but all my brothers think I am slightly strange, but then again, you know what kind of non-os they run.

    Glenn

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 03:41:20 BST

    OpenSSH 2.5.1 and high security configuration by default.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 09:55:19 BST

    sorry, a long whishlist...

    Kernel

    - Kernel 2.4 (if it's really stable then..)

    - automatic hardware detection at least for PCI, AGP and USB

    - manual hardware detection for ISA

    - PCI-/AGP-USB-hardware detection runs on every reboot

    - possibility to change the used driver for the detected hardware including uuse of non standard drivers

    - reiserfs

    - RAID

    - LVM

    Desktop

    - newest KDE version

    - GNOME 1.4 with newest apps as possible

    - many other apps and games

    - many Windowmanagers

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 16:10:20 BST

    In the setup, I want to have the choice between

    some security level

    - welcome to hacker (no security)

    - medium (default, similare to potato)

    - good (crypto and secutity enable, this should be similare to the default configration of openBSD)

    - High (very restrictive security fort server, no X).

    Debian SHOULD be the most STABLE + SECURE distro.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 18 @ 03:07:10 BST

    I see a high level of security as a must. After an installation of woody one should not have to go around and close this port and that and turn off this and that in order to make it secure. I think the security levels at installation is a great idea although I can't comment on their actual implementations.

    Anyhow, as a newbie I want to be able to install Linux and not have to worry *too* much about whether or not it is secure.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 21:00:34 BST

    A better powerpc installer is a must. I had to tweak things _a lot_ to even boot potato from the cd on my iBook.

    Kernel 2.4, iptables, reiserfs and better security as default would be nice to have. And newer versions of everything of course 🙂

    [ Reply ]


    In the *installer* .... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 13 @ 21:28:22 BST

    Some of the comments here are good, but missing the point. If we're looking at the installer, it narrows the focus. I don't have many requirements for the installer, except for those things that are painful to add later. So device autodetection isn't big for me. It's just a recompile for me if it doesn't make it in.

    Things I would *definitely* like: ReiserFS, LVM, Raid, Devfs. It's a huge hassle to do an install, and then have to figure a way to add this stuff later. Root on LVM with reiser anyone? Almost there myself, but I'd like to do a fresh install.

    After that, device autodetect and PnP stuff. Also (I haven't researched this, it may already be there) a simple way to create a duplicate installation. (one off, or mass production).

    [ Reply ]


    PPPOE support for DSL users (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Saturday, April 14 @ 00:09:15 BST

    My DSL provider uses PPPOE, and, until I built myself a router, it was impossible for me to perform a network installation of *any* common distribution of Linux. I'd have to do a lot of fooling about because the installer could not set up PPPOE or bring up my network connection.

    If the boot disks could configure PPPOE during the network portion of the setup, it would allow DSL users to more easily set up Debian.

    I'd suggest using Roaring Penguin's implementation of PPPOE, rp-pppoe. I believe there's already a .deb of that package in woody, though it is likely somewhat outdated. Not a programmer, but it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to add to the boot floppies.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: PPPOE support for DSL users (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Saturday, April 14 @ 04:14:17 BST

    This is a VERY good suggestion. I suggest using

    rp-pppoe 3.0 for this site

    http://www.roaringpenguin.com/pppoe/

    I'd suggest also to use that configuration to install linux by Internet, using boot floppy.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Saturday, April 14 @ 00:36:34 BST

    reiserfs is in the linux kernel but is not considered stable yet. it will only appear in the kernel configuration if you chose the config program to prompt you for development/unstable features.

    apart from that, i think woody should provide the latest linux from the 2.2 series and from the 2.4 series. people who have any reason not to use 2.4 yet will be happy and everyone else too, because 2.4 supports more hardware (for example, 2.4 will automatically configure ISA, ISA PnP and PCI modems, USB support is much better, etc). having said that, 2.4 should be the default.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Saturday, April 14 @ 17:03:14 BST

    Hi everyone, this is my wish list, so I can talk good about debian to my friends:

    option of another language installation:

    english

    SPANISH

    french

    chinese

    japanese

    russian

    because before using and setting up all those lovely features you request you need to understand what you are doing

    This is the one of the main points of the Debian Manifesto, helping users, (I will help my computer later on)

    Nestordi

    forever newbie!

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 00:55:46 BST

    C'est une très bonne idée ! Je crois qu'il faudrait aussi traduire les man pages ...

    This is a very good idea. I'd suggest to translate ALL the man pages of ALL packages.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 01:01:16 BST

    The man pages and packages information are being translated by groups,LuCAS and www.laespiral.org for spanish

    But the problem is that the installation cds are standard and there is no way to change without democratic agreement for a multilanguage installation

    thankyou anyway for the languages tasks

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 01:05:47 BST

    Please do not forget that we use Debian because it is STABLE. Please include only stable, well tested software.

    I'd suggest that debian should be the most secure OS.

    - All the ports should be close by default

    - The default configuration of each package, must be the MOST secure possible.

    Man page must be more clean and should give more informations to the reader.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 01:12:00 BST

    IMHO kernel 2.4.x and xfree 4.x should be include in Woody, but as optinal packages.

    I want to have the choice between well tested software and bleeding edge packages.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 02:40:22 BST

    In woody, I would like to see the security software from the NSA

    http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/index.html

    [ Reply ]


    Woody (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 13:34:48 BST

    Graphical Installer, Gnome 1.4+, XFree86 4.0.3+, and support for RAID and Journaling filesystems. Galeon, Evolution, XMMS + MP+ plugin (Sourceforge has this but it's DEEP DEEP BETA). Frontend for APT. OpenOffice ???

    I get back @ ya l8r, when I think of some more..

    [ Reply ]


    I want (a) Woody (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 13:35:07 BST

    Graphical Installer, Gnome 1.4+, XFree86 4.0.3+, and support for RAID and Journaling filesystems. Galeon, Evolution, XMMS + MP+ plugin (Sourceforge has this but it's DEEP DEEP BETA). Frontend for APT. OpenOffice ???

    I get back @ ya l8r, when I think of some more..

    [ Reply ]


    Re: I want (a) Woody (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 13:36:51 BST

    I forgot Kernel 2.4+

    [ Reply ]


    Re: I want (a) Woody (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 17 @ 11:15:51 BST

    And Supermount 🙂 !!!

    [ Reply ]


    Progeny (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, April 15 @ 15:31:01 BST

    I would like to see some of Progeny's new stuff in Woody. Especially discover, configlets, pkgsets.

    So we can all work together on improving those software.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Monday, April 16 @ 04:56:18 BST

    Debian is not Mandrake ... The only criterion in the choice of the package include in woody should be the stability.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Monday, April 16 @ 05:01:55 BST

    and security !

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Monday, April 16 @ 04:58:54 BST

    Kernel 2.4.x because :

    From: Wichert Akkerman

    Reply-To: security@debian.org

    To: debian-security-announce@lists.debian.org

    Subject: [SECURITY] [DSA-047-1] multiple kernel problems

    Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 20:16:44 -0400

    Resent-From: debian-security-announce@lists.debian.org

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    - ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Debian Security Advisory DSA-047-1 security@debian.org

    http://www.debian.org/security/ Wichert Akkerman

    April 16, 2001

    - ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Package : various kernel packages

    Problem type : multiple

    Debian-specific: no

    The kernels used in Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 have been found to have

    multiple security problems. This is a list of problems based

    on the 2.2.19 release notes as found on http://www.linux.org.uk/ :

    * binfmt_misc used user pages directly

    * the CPIA driver had an off-by-one error in the buffer code which made

    it possible for users to write into kernel memory

    * the CPUID and MSR drivers had a problem in the module unloading code

    which could case a system crash if they were set to automatically load

    and unload (please note that Debian does not automatically unload kernel

    modules)

    * There was a possible hang in the classifier code

    * The getsockopt and setsockopt system calls did not handle sign bits

    correctly which made a local DoS and other attacks possible

    * The sysctl system call did not handle sign bits correctly which allowed

    a user to write in kernel memory

    * ptrace/exec races that could give a local user extra privileges

    * possible abuse of a boundary case in the sockfilter code

    * SYSV shared memory code could overwrite recently freed memory which might

    cause problems

    * The packet length checks in the masquerading code were a bit lax

    (probably not exploitable)

    * Some x86 assembly bugs caused the wrong number of bytes to be copied.

    * A local user could deadlock the kernel due to bugs in the UDP port

    allocation.

    All these problems are fixed in the 2.2.19 kernel, and it is highly

    recommend that you upgrade machines to this kernel.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 18 @ 07:35:16 BST

    First don't want to make a GUI installer or let me choose on the start.

    - security levels

    - openssh 2.5.2p2 or later

    - freeswan, LIDS, openwall, medusa, etc patches like in sid you do 😉

    - possible install on serial port console, like in solaris, and by default, getty should open a port to ttyS0

    - by default it should suggest to install to resier and lvm

    - love lilo, don't need anything else

    - debian should put a new release out like *BSD guys 6 monthly

    - md5sums and aide by default

    - task-harden by default

    - no nfs sand rpc stuff by default

    - inetd.conf is commented out by default (I don't want a cristmas tree)

    - no write to /etc and anything to /, to mount it ro.

    once I hacked all the init stuff in potato to place anything to write to to /var

    - seperated partitions by default: /, /usr , /boot, /home, /var, /usr/local or /opt

    - read-only / and /usr by default, hack to runlevel 4 to mount them read-write

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, April 19 @ 00:39:40 BST

    /home mount with(rw,nosuid,nodev)

    /tmp mount with (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev)

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 18 @ 14:24:12 BST

    I would like to see:

    - ReiserFS or some other journaling filesystem

    - Devfs (without devfsd) for a nice /dev

    - USB support in bootfloppies. My problem is that I have only USB floppy and USB CD-rom. Boots, but won't install (lack of USB-support in kernel on boot-floppies).

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 20 @ 20:40:10 BST

    PostgreSQL v7.1 😉

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 24 @ 12:32:35 BST

    I installed 2 days ago Debian Potato for the first time.

    I got during the installation many errors, because it couldn't copy a package before another package was setup.

    Perhaps you should work on that, because after the installation I sat there for many hours resolving the dependencies.

    Sven

    [ Reply ]


    Ximian, kde2, latest mozilla and galeon... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 24 @ 14:21:07 BST

    Ximian, kde2, latest mozilla and galeon... it would be nice to have these in the install and with apt-get update. One thing we are lacking are up-to-date browsers. kde2 would give us konq and gnome users would get mozilla and galeon. Ximian would give us evolution.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ximian, kde2, latest mozilla and galeon... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, September 16 @ 08:03:49 BST

    mozilla is up to date, but you have to edit sources.list to use non-us packages. don't ask why, i'm not sure either.

    [ Reply ]


    Compaq SMART RAID controller support (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, April 27 @ 19:13:33 BST

    The kernel has supported Compaq SMART array controllers since 2.2.12, maybe earlier. However, Debian hasn't built a version of boot-floppies supporting that array controller. The workarounds are ridiculous. You're expected to install an IDE or standalone SCSI drive and install your root filesystem to that and then load the SMART driver to mount or create your other filesystems.

    This isn't acceptable to anyone looking to install Debian to an old Compaq server that's no longer up to snuff for use running NT or Win2k. Sysadmins who use Debian love it, but if they can't get the dang thing installed to old hardware, they'll never get the chance to try it.

    I tested installing four different distributions to an old Compaq ProLiant 1500 I'd earmarked for use as a Debian-based MRTG and SNMP server. The only distro I could get to install onto the server was Red Hat. None of the Debian-based distros I tried would install. I even rolled my own kernel with SMART-array support and put that on a floppy with no joy whatsoever.

    I'd have stayed with Red Hat if using RPM wasn't such a horrible nightmare of an experience. My brief encounter with RPM was enough to convince me to completely forswear all RPM-based distros.

    I no longer work at the company where I wasted so much time trying to get Debian working on that Compaq, so I've never had a chance to try Progeny on a Compaq, but is it so impossible to get Debian to boot to a Compaq SMART-based RAID array?

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Ask DP: What do you want to see in woody ... (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, September 16 @ 08:17:00 BST

    Better dist-upgrading with apt-get. I dist-upgraded directly from potato to woody and i had several issues. i even had small issues upgrading a fresh woody install to sid. i would like to see debian reach a level of upgradeability comparable to that of rpm-based systems.

    [ Reply ]


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