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    Best current GLX drivers
    Contributed by GreatJehovah on Wednesday, October 03 @ 19:28:27 BST

    Linux
    I am sick of the troubles caused by the closed nvidia drivers and I am ready to buy a better supported card. Are there any cheap 3D cards with more stable open source drivers? Matrox? Radeon? I googled around a bit but I can't seem find any current information on this subject.

    rob: Debian is rather spoilt for choice as you can use both older X3.3.6 + extra GLX or the newer X4 with its GLX provision via DRI.

     
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  • "Best current GLX drivers" | Login/Create Account | 67 comments
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    The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.

    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, October 07 @ 13:28:05 BST

    Hi folks,

    i am still searching for a working combination

    of DRI & Xinerama.

    I have 2 Displays & i want

    - work on both with Xinerama

    - have OpenGL through DRI or whatever

    on 1 or both Displays

    Does someone know a videocard or a combination of 2 videocards for this purposes ?

    Höcky

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 3, Informative)
    by rob on Wednesday, October 03 @ 19:33:19 BST
    (User Info)

    If you can find A 3DFX Voodoo 3000+ card they have excellent 3D support both with XFree86 4 DRI and with older independent XFree86 3.3.6 addons.

    I personally have a Matrox card as well as a V3, the Matrox 450 card gives stunning Xinerama powered dualhead experiance which I love, and if i go into singlehead powerful GL accelerated support.

    I reccomend you dont use Matrox's binary drivers the Open Source ones are equally good. Download Matrox's GPL Powerdesk utility to configure your card very easily (ignore the warning about driver).

    See AGL's article about the G450 for more details.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 03 @ 22:59:02 BST

    i've found that the voodoo series of cards (>= 3) are quite well supported. my only complaint is that they are not powerful enough to play most newer 3d games (quake 3, descent 3, return to castle wolfenstein) at a decent framerate.

    the main problem i have with my voodoo3 3000 is possibly due to a driver bug/misdesign. i run my 2d desktop at 1600x1200, and when i try using 3d apps - even when they flip into 640x480 - they perform horribly. i'd imagine it's becase nearly half of my 16mb of ram is used storing my desktop. starting X at 640x480 then running my 3d apps works much better. so if you are going with a voodoo, get one with more ram.

    btw, my experiences with my voodoo are with kernel 2.4.x, xfree86 4.0.x & 4.1.x using dri.

    i had bad experiences with my matrox g200. i could never get it working well. the 4mb of ram might have had something to do with it.

    i'd like to get a geforce, but the binary drivers put me off. i've never had a good experience with binary-only drivers.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, October 05 @ 15:02:06 BST

    I have a V3... not *exactly* sure of the config type, but from playing, I can tell you, I like my TNT1 better than the V3 because the TNT1 renders both gltron and armagetron much better.

    YMMV, just thought I'd give you some input.

    -l

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by bartman77 on Friday, October 05 @ 18:13:11 BST
    (User Info)

    How did you get your G450 working?

    Xinerama works too on my Sid machine, but stuff like Parsec or Descent do crash the X-Server while stop showing Splash screens and starting GL-Stuff...

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 3, Informative)
    by Integral on Wednesday, October 03 @ 19:37:41 BST
    (User Info)

    I have a Matrox G400 that seems to be quite stable. I don't know how it compares speed-wise on an absolute scale, but it's handled just about everything I've thrown at it. (the new floating buildings in bzflag slow things down, but I suspect that's due to bzflag's implementation and history. Quake3 is fine, tuxracer is fine, gears is fine (the last being, of course, the real reason to get a 3D accelerator 🙂 ) )

    Daniel

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by jamesleigh on Wednesday, October 03 @ 21:33:20 BST
    (User Info)

    I hear good things about the matrox card, but a friend of mine has one and he has not been able to get it going under debian. What package does the matrox card require. aside from the xlibmesa3.

    I have a voodoo, and you just apt-get xlibmesa3 libglide3. and yourset.

    What do you have to do to get matrox G400 going?

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by Integral on Wednesday, October 03 @ 23:51:22 BST
    (User Info)

    You need a kernel with Matrox DRI and AGP support (modules agpgart and mga). I don't think you need to do anything else, except maybe make sure your XF86Config is loading the dri and glx modules, and that the DRI access mode is appropriate (probably 0666)

    Daniel

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 04:41:53 BST

    Are you using a 2.4.x kernel? If not that is what you need. Check the unoffical sources list for info on how to get a debian package. I am using 2.4.9-k6 and it works like a champ.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 07:24:43 BST

    On Pogeny I had to load AGPGART and MGA by had before starting X or load them then restart X. Well and follow the install instructions for the driver file copies and added lines to the xfree.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 2, Informative)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 03 @ 19:46:10 BST

    I dunno what problems you have (my nVidia drivers work great), but there a few good choices.

    A Voodoo card simply can't compare to an nVidia card. Matrax cards are excellent in stability and 2D power, and have awesome opern source drivers, but 3D-wise they are worthless next to a GeForce[123] card. Radeons are the best choice as far as power goes, and ATI is going to release a newer more power Radeon to compete with Geforce2's (and possible GeForce3's). I don't know how stable the Radeon drivers are though - you need at least X 4.1.0, I know that.

    I recommend Matrox for stability, Radeon for power, and nVidia for both if the drivers work for you (since the last two driver upgrades, I have had *no* graphics problems at all with my GeForce DDR).

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 03 @ 20:51:39 BST

    I'm also interested in what problems you may be experiencing w/ the nvidia drivers. The only issues I've seen had to do with AGP usage and even that isn't much of a problem for me. You should perhaps visit #nvidia via irc where I have found the help to be fantastic.

    Folks tend to dismiss Nvidia for its closed drivers but the truth of the matter is that they are dedicating resources to driver development under Linux and that should be encouraged. They come out with timely updated driver releases and also address the bugs that appear on different distributions & chipsets.

    They claim closed source components from other manufacturers as the reason for the closed drivers which may or may not be true but I still like their products which bring Workstation quality 3D to desktop PCs (not just Wintel). Kudos to Nvidia.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by Integral on Wednesday, October 03 @ 21:10:27 BST
    (User Info)

    Matrax [sic] cards are excellent in stability and 2D power, and have awesome opern source drivers, but 3D-wise they are worthless next to a GeForce[123] card.

    Could you give a specific example of a task for which a Matrox card is "worthless"? (I'm not interested in benchmark numbers; give an example of a program which does not work acceptably using a Matrox card)

    Thanks,

    Daniel

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 03 @ 22:34:36 BST

    I said *wothless next to*. It's a figure of speech. Calm down, buddy. Matrox's have nice 3D, but I wouldn't ever consider putting one of them in a gamer's box who is running Windows, and I won't make any sort of a different recommendation for Linux. A GeForce2MX can be obtained for the same price as the latest Matrax, and has many times the 3D graphics processing power.

    For 3D work, unless you are an inflexible and foolish freak who refuses to use drivers simply because the people who did all the work and wrote the code don't think you are entitled to it just because you exist (sorry for rant, but I've run into one too many RMS wanna-be's today...), nVidia cards beat Matrox cards in every single 3D-related arena. Fact.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by Integral on Wednesday, October 03 @ 23:22:44 BST
    (User Info)

    I said *wothless next to*. It's a figure of speech.

    So, you actually meant that Matrox cards are competitive with nVidia? My question was, and is: what specific existing programs do not run acceptably when using a Matrox card? If you cannot answer this, I do not see how the relation "worthless next to", or any variant of it, can apply to Matrox.

    Calm down, buddy.

    I am calm. However, I do dislike baseless statements. I also would like to hear an explanation of this common claim, so I know what I'm missing out on.

    If all programs run acceptably on Matrox cards, what makes nVidia beat them in such a complete fashion? (one answer for gamers and one for normal people is acceptable; I didn't see what point of view the original question was from)

    Matrox's have nice 3D, but I wouldn't ever consider putting one of them in a gamer's box who is running Windows, and I won't make any sort of a different recommendation for Linux.

    Why? I want to know a solid reason.

    For 3D work, unless you are an inflexible and foolish freak who refuses to use drivers simply because the people who did all the work and wrote the code don't think you are entitled to it just because you exist (sorry for rant, but I've run into one too many RMS wanna-be's today...),

    The words "inflexible", "foolish", and "freak" have nothing to do with 3D cards or their usefulness. Nor does your personal need to imply that people are these things for holding opinions you disagree with.

    nVidia cards beat Matrox cards in every single 3D-related arena. Fact.

    The sky is pink. Fact.

    Gee, that was easy. Have I convinced you? Note that I gave as much supporting evidence as you have (except that I haven't repeated myself several times and called you a freak; I hope you won't mind)

    I'll believe that nVidia cards have bigger benchmark numbers. Can you give me a reason *I* might want to saddle myself with non-free drivers? ie, a specific program which does not run or loses a significant number of features when run on a Matrox card.

    Daniel

    [ Reply ]


    Games, and open source drivers (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 00:39:49 BST

    Well, nobody seems to want to admit it, but the main reason people want to have the fastest 3d is playing games. It really makes a different if you can play in higher resolution, or at higher fps in these games.

    That said, I got myself a Voodoo3 the minute I heard they were going to open up everything about their cards. And I haven't been dissappointed. Even though 3dfx is no more, and nvidia isn't supported whatever assets they bought from them, I still have drivers on my linux box for them, and it's still possible to have some sort of progress on them.

    They run the hardware fast enough and i'm happy. The games i have on linux run stable and fast enough, and it's enough for the simple non-game programs i run. I know however, whenever the next id game comes out on linux i won't be happy anymore, as the hardware won't be able to run it fast enough.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Games, and open source drivers (Score: 1)
    by Integral on Thursday, October 04 @ 02:39:17 BST
    (User Info)

    Well, nobody seems to want to admit it, but the main reason people want to have the fastest 3d is playing games. It really makes a different if you can play in higher resolution, or at higher fps in these games.

    Hm, I understand that, but my card is fine for the games I've played. Dunno if it'll work with the next id game, but then, I've got more than enough other (and free) games (3d or not) to waste my tiny amount of free time. Anyway, I think I'm agreeing with you.

    Daniel

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 10:25:23 BST

    Read the other answers : Blender doesn't seem to run on a Matrox (don't know where the problem is), SoF works, but with heavy clipping, Return to Castle Wolf is dead slow,...

    People who want a good fast 3d accelerator want that : a good fast 3d accelerator. Be it for games or 3d image creation/manipulation, faster and higher resolution/bpp is always better.

    Yes drivers for nvidia are closed (for now), but yes they are good, fast, and supported. Thats better than no driver at all, and a first step in the right direction. Hell, I don't have windows open source drivers for any hardware I have. That doesn't stop me from using it when I need it (at work for example).

    --

    Hobbes

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, October 05 @ 14:34:57 BST

    Competitive? Um, *yes*. Two companies make graphics cards. Both companies make cards for business users. Both companies want to take market share from the other company. That is competition.

    And by wothless next to, I meant that if you want to run a serious 3D app, Matrax will not handle it anywhere near as well as a modern nVidia card. You can't run apps on a Matrox in as high a resolution, with as high a color depth, with T&L and vertex shaders and FSAA. This is very useful if you play modern games, be they FPS, modern RPG (awaiting NWN here), or even the new commercial tuxracer. So yes, my point of view was for gamers or any serious 3D user, which I had thought I stated quite clearly in my previous post.

    Sorry for the rant, and sorry I failed to finish the sentence (I meant that for 3D work, nvidia wins hands down). Again, thought, I really can't stand people that refuse to use software that isn't GPL or what not, and think that they are entitles to all source code no matter what - that *is* inflexible, that isn't very wise considering many (but no, not even close to all) tasks require use of closed source software, and though I don't know what your definition of freak is that is within my definition. In any event, if your (or anyone else's) sole reason not to use nVidia is because they don't open source their drivers, then I really have no intention of trying to carry on an intelligent conversation regarding the technological merits of Matrox and nVidia.

    Yes, the sky can be pink, we call it a Sunset. 🙂 Although they're usually more orange... but they can be pink. And seriously, if you really need me to go and describe every feature of both cards to you, then I will not bother with this conversation. Do a search on google, you will find exact technological specifications on both brands of cards.

    So yes, I have repeatedly given you reasons why you *might* want to "saddle yourself with non-free drivers." If they aren't strong enough reasons for you, *fine*. I would recommend a Matrox card for any person not in need of powerful 3D, which you seem to be.

    Programs that would need an nVidia or other sufficiently powerful cards: modern games, 3D animation and rendering, 3D desktop systems (something I never understood the use for), and increasingly even a lot of high-performance 2D image rendering apps (don't know why they use OpenGL for that stuff, always confused me...).

    In any event, since you seem to be more interested in how I can articulate exact details or whether or not a driver's author thinks you are automatically entitled to source, I don't think there's much more point to my responding to your future messages.

    If you are happy with a Matrox, great. If you ever need a decent 3D card, I suggest you get over the must-be-free-software fetish and try an nVidia card - they work really great. If you want proof, *try one*.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, October 07 @ 02:57:04 BST

    Among applications that will not run acceptably with "any" matrox card are Maya 4 for Linux. (Try working on a 100,000 + polygon model with a Matrox card)

    From my experience of trying to use one with Softimage under Windows (unsuccessfully), I'm pretty sure the same will be true with XSI 2 for Linux as well.

    Matrox cards suck at 3D, period. The cheapest geforce2MX feels way, way more responsive when you're working with a 3D modelling application. A good T&L engine matters, a lot, believe it or not.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by iie1195 on Thursday, October 04 @ 04:22:52 BST
    (User Info)

    - Soldier of Fortune (Clipping (but fast))

    - Return to Castle Wolfenstein (Slow as hell...)

    [...]

    -iie1195

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by Integral on Thursday, October 04 @ 20:05:28 BST
    (User Info)

    Thanks.

    Daniel

    [ Reply ]


    Other examples (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 23:38:51 BST

    Matrox G400 single head 16MB SGRAM:

    Quake 3 -- unplayibly slow with K6 III 400

    Elite Force (based on Q3) -- the same as above

    It's great for 2D things, but if you want to play games you should get a card that does better 3D.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Other examples (Score: 1)
    by Integral on Friday, October 05 @ 13:06:31 BST
    (User Info)

    Quake 3 -- unplayibly slow with K6 III 400

    This I have to question: I can play the Quake 3 demo without any difficulty. I have to wonder if you have 3D acceleration working at all.

    (admittedly, I have an Athlon 750, but I've played Quake 3 on a decidedly less powerful system (graphics card and processor) in Linux and found it playable)

    Daniel

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Other examples (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Sunday, October 07 @ 10:57:32 BST

    To build on my parent post:

    I have a PII 266, and yet I manage to play a very playable Quake III. The difference is that I own an NVidia TNT2 Vanta... a very low range 3d card nowadays. When I say playable I mean 30-40FPS.

    This is not CPU related but more a question of 3d accelleration. Check to see if it has been loaded.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 06:11:09 BST

    Specific Example: Blender

    I have a Matrox G400 sitting in my hardware heap because the drivers were not compatable with blender (the windows drivers froze it also). The early Nvidia drivers had a few problems with blender but it was usable until Nvidia fixed them. Now they work perfectly and the speed at 1280x1024 is very nice.

    Matt Henley

    mhenley@houston.rr.com

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by abo on Thursday, October 04 @ 01:01:10 BST
    (User Info) http://sourceforge.net/users/abo/

    A Voodoo can't compare to an nVidia card on raw benchmark figures (on windows) perhaps, but they can compete on support and stability.

    I've got a couple of Banshee's that are quite old now, but for the price, performance, and stability they are brilliant. I would have to argue that voodoo possibly beats Matrox for stability and support, and possibly beats it at 3D, though the Matrox is probably a better 2D card and has more features (dual head, etc. that are supported).

    People quote 3D benchmark stuff that makes nVidia look good but it is important to remember that these benchmarks are done under windows. No matter how good the hardware is, it will be crippled by bad drivers, and I doubt the nVidia drivers for Linux are anywhere near as good as their windows drivers.

    An important thing to remember is nVidia is primarily a DirectX card, whereas Linux and most of the other cards are OpenGL. It's the nVidia drivers that effectively translate from OpenGL to DirectX, and that gives a performance hit. I'm yet to see any benchmarks done under Linux, but rumors I'm hearing say Radeon, even with it's relatively immature drivers, beats the piss out of nVidia on Linux at 3D. And it looks better.

    My advice would be; Matrox for 2D and features, Voodo for value 3D, Radeon for fast/expensive 3D. However, the Radeon is a bit new so be prepared for a bumpy ride untill the drivers stabilise.

    The only reason for nVidia is cheap windows 3D, with reasonable Linux performance thrown in, at the cost of ongoing Linux driver hassles.

    I know someone is going to say "but the nVidia binary drivers are easy to install and work fine". They might right now, but they didn't for a while, and every time the rest of Linux changes, they will break again. Lets face it, Linux changes fairly fast, so you can look forward to regular breakages.

    The one card I don't know much about under Linux is the Kyro2 chipset. These apparently give good budget 3D on windows, very under-rated. If these had good Linux support they could easily replace voodoo for budget 3D.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 03:04:56 BST

    Hey...

    Likewise to you not having seen NVidia benchmarks, I haven't seen Radeon ones, but to say that the Radeon beats the piss out of a GeForce under Linux seems like a joke. As much as people love to take the piss out of NVidia's binary only drivers, their performance is only a couple of % below their Windows counterparts, which I imagine results in them being considerably faster than the Radeon.

    "with reasonable Linux performance" ?? I have a GeForce 2 here, and the performance is rock solid.

    You may be right and maybe in the future they'll (NVidia) screw up and fall behind with Linux support, but at the moment they're their fixing most problems and have provided a solution which is compatible with the latest Linux kernels.

    And when it comes down to it, the linux kernel moving fast is going to result in some breakages for any drivers, but NVidia I believe so far have been moving as fast as most OSS efforts in rectifying broken drivers.

    May be wrong, my 2 cents.

    Cheers,

    Chris

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 10:08:54 BST

    If you want benchmarks done under linux, simply search for 'nvidia linux benchmark' under google before you state mistakes. NVidia is not only good under windows, but it also rocks under linux :

    http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/00q3/000811/

    The bench is quite old, and shows a little performance difference, but the reason is known and explained in the article. I don't know if nvidia resolved the issue to date, and I don't care : I have a Geforce DDR, and it rocks under linux and windows.

    For the opengl/directx statement, look the quadro (the same engine as a gforce) which is a professionnal cad solution, which of course means it's a blazing fast opengl hardware engine. Where did you get that nvidia cards didn't perform well with opengl ? They run gears quite fast 🙂

    Yes the drivers are not open, yes I would prefer open ones, but they actually *have* drivers (and supported ones at that), they certainly work and they beat the shit out of any other 3d setup right now (The radeon looks good, but the drivers are a joke).

    So if you want open source drivers, go with another vendor for the moment (some are excellent, but none could compete with the nvidia 3d perfs at the moment). If you want to support a vendor that actually *has* good supported drivers, go with the best linux solution available now : a gforce.

    --

    Hobbes

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by PygmySurfer on Thursday, October 04 @ 15:43:07 BST
    (User Info)

    It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about, maybe you should get the facts straight before you post such nonsense.

    An important thing to remember is nVidia is primarily a DirectX card, whereas Linux and most of the other cards are OpenGL.

    This doesn't even make sense? What's a Linux card? Either way, NVidia has a more complete OpenGL specification than 3Dfx has ever had. It took 2 years for 3Dfx to even release a BETA OpenGL ICD for Windows, I don't think they ever did release the final OpenGL ICD.

    It's the nVidia drivers that effectively translate from OpenGL to DirectX, and that gives a performance hit.

    I don't know where you came up with this, but its obviously wrong. A) There's no translation from OpenGL to DirectX because B) There's no such thing as a DirectX card. OpenGL and DirectX are basically APIs which programmers use to interface with the hardware. You can make DirectX calls, or OpenGL calls, they're both caught by the driver, which then calls the appropriate hardware function.

    I don't understand how you can recommend a 3 year old, unsupported video card to ANYONE. And the Radeon? Come on, ATI has never even been able to write a Windows driver. Oh, nevermind, ATI doesn't even supply drivers.

    I fail to see why the majority of users would require open source drivers, anyway? How many people here know how to actually code for a 3D video card? Who cares, if the vendor updates them, and they work (quite well, I might add).

    I'm still laughing about that NVidia is a DirectX card line...

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by iceman on Monday, October 08 @ 09:49:37 BST
    (User Info)

    >I fail to see why the majority of users would require open source drivers, anyway?

    Because open source drivers means better suport in the medium/long time by the open source developers, even when the vendor has ceased support for that piece of hardware.

    E.g: if in some years kernel 2.8 force a rewrite of the drivers and NVidia don't want to release a new driver for an old and unsopported card, then the owners of that video card will have a problem.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by faceprint on Thursday, October 04 @ 18:37:39 BST
    (User Info) http://faceprint.com/

    I haven't seen the nVidia chips under linux in a while, but when i decided it was time to replace my vid card, I got a Radeon 64MB DDR, and i'm very very happy. The quality blew me away, and the speed is incredible compared to my G400.

    Can't wait for E17 to come out, so I actually have a need for GL on my desktop 😉

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 03 @ 20:23:29 BST

    hi. I'm also interested in what the original poster said. cheap, stable and open source drivers. But I'd also like to find a card that has a TV tuner that is supported under linux. Any suggestions?

    [ Reply ]


    ATi All-in-wonder (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 03 @ 21:42:20 BST

    My roommate had an ATi All-in-wonder (relatively dated now, based on the 3DRage Pro). It worked really well. The drivers are pretty stable and the video capture works flawlessly under the GATOS project... even better and more featureful than the lauded bttv cards. I only hope the Radeon-based All-in-Wonder is just as stable!

    [ Reply ]


    Re: ATi All-in-wonder (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 17 @ 05:29:06 BST

    I have owned in my time an ATI All In Wonder Pro (PCI), an All In Wonder 128 (AGP), and a Hauppauge WinTV. The ati's work great (Radeon as well) for watching TV, with ati_xv from linuxvideo.org. The Hauppauge is much lesser quality display, and the framerate drops with high cpu loads (not to mention doesn't full-screen very well), but can capture with the current drivers. Video capture for Radeon cards is aparantly available for testing according to the livid-gatos mailing list on the linuxvideo.org page.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by quarterbooty on Wednesday, October 03 @ 23:52:41 BST
    (User Info)

    i have a separate tv card by stb that works great under linux with the bttv kernel module. i think it has a phillips tuner on it. maybe not what you were looking for, though.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 2, Informative)
    by ASleep on Wednesday, October 03 @ 22:04:19 BST
    (User Info) http://www.asleep.net/

    My G450's are the best cards I ever got. They haven't failed me yet and perform better then most other cards for double the price.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by quarterbooty on Thursday, October 04 @ 00:01:02 BST
    (User Info)

    i have a matrox g450, and it works flawlessly with sid and X 4.1.0.1 (a prelease if you check the log). q3a is very smooth. with the updated dri stuf in the kernel tree, gears gets like 565 fps now. of course, the gl kde screen savers work great:) the render extension is supported, so aa fonts work. xinerama works perfectely, too. matrox also has a gui program to configure your card. i don't have it; i just prefer to edit the file by hand. i haven't tried the tv out on it yet. anyone know if that works?

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 03:46:20 BST

    I get 690fps as max, 650fps stable.

    [ Reply ]


    Indeed (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 23:41:10 BST

    I get around 500fps on my Matrox G400.

    I only got about 50fps with software rendering.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by bartman77 on Friday, October 05 @ 18:21:42 BST
    (User Info)

    Could you give some Details? Kernel Version? etc...

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 10 @ 14:04:52 BST

    565 fps? Come back when you get a real computer...

    GL_RENDERER = GeForce3/AGP/3DNOW!

    GL_VERSION = 1.2.2

    GL_VENDOR = NVIDIA Corporation

    GL_EXTENSIONS = GL_ARB_imaging GL_ARB_multisample GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_S3_s3tc GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_paletted_texture GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_texture3D GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_cube_map GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_texture_lod GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_EXT_vertex_weighting GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_KTX_buffer_region GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_evaluators GL_NV_fence GL_NV_fog_distance GL_NV_light_max_exponent GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil GL_NV_register_combiners GL_NV_register_combiners2 GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc GL_NV_texture_env_combine4 GL_NV_texture_rectangle GL_NV_texture_shader GL_NV_texture_shader2 GL_NV_vertex_array_range GL_NV_vertex_array_range2 GL_NV_vertex_program GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_multitexture GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_SGIX_depth_texture GL_SGIX_shadow

    12101 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2420.200 FPS

    12954 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2590.800 FPS

    12964 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2592.800 FPS

    12958 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2591.600 FPS

    12941 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2588.200 FPS

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 01:31:09 BST

    if you want speed and dont want a nvidia card - u'll have to wait for the Radeon 2 my friend

    nothing compares to a geforce[123] atm.

    [ Reply ]


    AGP/DRI help (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 01:55:07 BST

    ok ive got debian2.2 with a 2.4.x kernel and a Matrox G550. I love the 2d and the dual head. but when ever i try to use agpgart to get the 3d it absolutely locks my machine unless i remove the IntelBX code, and i have a BX mobo. I have been trying to find a place to direct questions and get some help. Does any one know where i can turn for some kind of help for this and get a reasonable amount of help.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: AGP/DRI help (Score: 1)
    by Integral on Thursday, October 04 @ 02:41:52 BST
    (User Info)

    It sounds like maybe a kernel problem -- perhaps mailing the Linux kernel list would provide some help? (before you do that, though, I'd suggest doing some searches on Google, and maybe Deja, for similar problems, in case it's a known bug)

    Daniel

    [ Reply ]


    really G550? (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 04:08:22 BST

    G550? are you sure? not G450?

    so, how is X working with G550 - you say dualhead works?

    [ Reply ]


    Re: AGP/DRI help (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 16:32:56 BST

    On my G400 with kernel 2.4 / xfree 4.0.x /dri, disabling multitexturing (where you can do that depends on the program/game, there doesn't seem to be a central config) often improves stability (no more X locks).

    [ Reply ]


    the point: nVidia cards have BAD image quality (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 04:04:55 BST

    I am not really 3d fan, but I play new Wolf alot - works fine on my G450. And I would _never_ trade Matrox image quality (yeah, there is something to look @1600x1200 on 21" sony) for some crazy benchmarks in some games. Yes, I've seen cards on nVidia chips, and image quality is disgusting. I have an idea, why card makers put such shitty DACs with nVidia's chips - because this are gamers cards, and you really won't notice anything in quake running 1024x768; and you obviously won't run quake 1600x1200.

    In 1995 I chose Trident 9440 over S3 Trio (trio had resonable 16bit 2d perf) because of image quality, than ATI instead of 3dfx, for same reason, and year ago - Matrox, not nVidia.

    BTW, ATI have quite good image quality, but still uncomparable to Matrox.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: the point: nVidia cards have BAD image quality (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 04:18:52 BST

    that's me, again. sorry for my english.

    my next card will be ATI or Matrox. ATI Fire GL - yes, they are expensive - work really well with Linux and have nice DAC.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: the point: nVidia cards have BAD image quality (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 10 @ 14:16:50 BST

    If you have a GeForce 3 and a reasonably fast computer you _can_ run quake at 1600x1200 very smoothly. The difference in image quality versus a Matrox card is hardly distinguishable, and given an blind test you probably wouldn't be able to get any better than a 50% hit rate.

    I seriously considered getting a Matrox card when I was looking to upgrade, but the claims of the vastly improved image quality of Matrox just didn't show up in real life when the cards were subject to testing, and the minor differences that did exist simply couldn't make up for the fact that Matrox cards are incredibly slow at 3D graphics.

    [ Reply ]


    Support nVidia! (Score: 2, Insighful)
    by iie1195 on Thursday, October 04 @ 04:35:41 BST
    (User Info)

    Why not get one of the lower-end GeForce2 cards? I've had a Geforce2 GTS and, now, a Geforce2 Ultra, and have not had ANY problems with getting X or OpenGL stuff to work.

    I have, however, had performance issues with ATI, Matrox and Voodoo >3 ...

    I'm a gamer. I admit it. I more often play a good game rather than code... I want fast, easy-to-get-running 3D. I found that in the GeForce[2,3]... Yes, the drivers are binary-only, but why the hell should that matter? If we can't find a place for both closed-source software / hardware and Free Software in our little Linux castle in the clouds, Linux will NEVER succeed as a good gaming platform or on the desktop. Developers are people too, and people generally likes to have a little green for food (if you're a kernel hacker: instant noodles, Dew an' coffee 😉 ... Am I not right? I mean, I'd pay good money for a good, supported product any day, instead of downloading the umph-teenth 0.05Alpha of the Opensource alternative.

    If we can't show support for the few [cool] hardware [as well as software] companies that actually supports Linux (even closed source), how can we expect Linux to succeed, how can we then expect(!!) companies to port their apps over to Linux or release honest-to-Bog drivers for this operation system of ours?

    Let's show them support when they actually make an effort to support us, don't flame them with all the "Why the fuck aren't your drivers open-source?" crap.

    My next card will be the GeForce3 (for my dedicated Linux box...)

    It's the best card for any gamer, be Linux(!!) or Windoze on the market today.

    (This turned into quite a rant; think I'll stop now 😉

    -iie1195

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Support nVidia! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 10:19:25 BST

    don't use nvidia! the support by nvidia is ... mh i would like to say didn't exists. BTW you will not be able to use accelerated framebuffer. with linux 2.4.11 there will be license tagging for modules and then you will have an unsoupported system.

    the driver after 1.0.1251 have poor image quality and they are not stable!

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Support nVidia! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 12:35:21 BST

    Unsupported system, supported by who? I support my Debian box!!

    Maybe for you the drivers have poor quality & are not stable. I would assume that has more to do with you & your system rather than the drivers themselves.

    They are rock solid & the images are cripsy on my box.

    I for one am glad that Nvidia see Linux as a viable platform & back that up by excellent drivers. I can olny wish other hardware makers out there would follow Nvidia's example!!!

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Support nVidia! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, October 05 @ 09:51:19 BST

    supported by alan cox an others. he get tiered of solving bugs which are only nvidia specific without having the source code! see also http://lwn.net/2001/0906/kernel.php3

    nothing against nVidia, but using the binary only driver prevent you from using rivafb.

    with the newer driver the xvideo looks terrible.

    yes on my system the drivers hang the system if i use agp.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Support nVidia! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Monday, October 08 @ 03:26:00 BST

    And on my system, XFree86 will just crash, sometimes when I'm sitting there and sometimes when I come back to a session. Its very annoying.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Support nVidia! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 14:36:51 BST

    Let's show them support when they actually make an effort to support us, don't flame them with all the "Why the fuck aren't your drivers open-source?" crap.

    Well, just leave the i386 arch and look out for support... I've got an Alpha at home and I got normal X to work after two days (!) of trying. 3D support for non-Intel is not there. Have you ever tried to tell nVidia that you'd like to have a non-Intel-driver? Oops, there is no support-address on the homepage... what a pity...

    This would be absolutely no problem if they'd release the drivers as open source. What big secrets might be hidden the hardware access anyway?

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Support nVidia! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 19:00:26 BST

    I dont know about support address, but there is an irc channel (#nvidia, i think) where you can talk to other people and there is usually at least one nvidia guy in there. I bitched to him about several problems i was having with opengl. It took a while, but they are fixed now.

    Correct me if i am wrong, but they have released new linux drivers at the same rate as they have released windows drivers. My machine is stable and the video quality is very good. The cards are cheap. I am happy with my nvidia purchase.

    I am running AMD and have no experiece with alpha.

    Matt Henley

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Support nVidia! (Score: 1)
    by colby on Thursday, October 04 @ 18:52:54 BST
    (User Info) http://colby.dhs.org

    He's not looking for the best video card for linux. He's looking for the best video card for HIMSELF. He already stated his views on the nVidia drivers, which means that he thought about what you already said. You can support those companies, but he has decided not to.

    -colby

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Support nVidia! (Score: 1)
    by iie1195 on Thursday, October 04 @ 20:10:26 BST
    (User Info)

    Yeah, I know. I just started thinking too much and got off on a rant-rampage. Sorry 😉

    -iie1195

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Support nVidia! (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Friday, October 05 @ 10:19:04 BST

    I have an old nVidia Vanta which doesn't work with the binary nVidia drivers and I never had 3D on Linux. My next card will be an ATI Radeon or Radeon 7500. There is no reason to support nVidia. The only reason they make this drivers is to get some good press "look we support Linux" and stop the Linux Community from reverse engineering their cards and writing free drivers.

    They just learned from the movie industry. If they had released a commercial or maybe a free as in beer DVD Player, maybe CSS would not exist.

    The point is I buy their product with MY money and they do not release any specs. So they say use it on Windows or Linux with XFree 4 or just forget it. This is not how a company should threat it's customers.

    Andi

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Thursday, October 04 @ 15:05:52 BST

    I used to have a single-head G400 in my machine which worked wonderfully using the (GPL'd) drivers from www.matrox.com. This card is, however, discontinued, and I believe you need a binary-only module (mga_hal.o) to use the G450. Quake 3 performance was good, and all was well until the card broke (video memory error I think, random screen corruption). I now have an ATI Radeon card, using XFree86 4.1.0 (I'm running Woody) and it works wonderfully, better performance than the Matrox card and as good 2D image quality IMO - both are far better in terms of image clarity than any of the nVidia cards I've tried.

    Hope this helps..

    Sam

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 2, Informative)
    by colby on Thursday, October 04 @ 18:49:59 BST
    (User Info) http://colby.dhs.org

    I have experience with the G400, G450 and the Radeon 64 DDR VIVO.

    The image quality seems to be better on the Radeon, but it is a more recent card so that is to be expected. The G450 does not seem to offer any improvement over the G400 and requires a slightly different setup. The G400/450 are more forgiving in your setup, the Radeon is much easier to set up with a particular choice of kernel and X versions.

    I use a Radeon at home and I love it. I use a post-2.4.7 kernel and X 4.1.0 and it requires only a configuration of X and enabling DRI for it to work. After making sure everything is linked against the correct libGL, I have awesome frame rates in gears and games like Quake3 and Unreal.

    My husband uses a G400 at home. Any 2.4 kernel, any X 4.x version, it works. Easy to set up, decent quality. Not as fast/high quality as the radeon, but probably cheaper right now.

    We use G450s where I work (in Dell machines). Ditto the setup on the G400 except that you have to install the binary mga_hal module available on Matrox's website in order for it to work.

    If I had to do it again, I'd choose Radeon if it was a home user box, G400/450 if it is a workstation. I was turned off by nVidia with the closed drivers, too.

    Kernel source for recent kernels is available in testing/unstable, X 4.1.x is available in both testing and unstable as well. :o)

    -nicole

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by GreatJehovah on Thursday, October 04 @ 19:42:05 BST
    (User Info)

    Thanks. This is exactly the the information I wanted. Radeon it is.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by colby on Thursday, October 04 @ 19:58:28 BST
    (User Info) http://colby.dhs.org

    If you have any questions, feel free to toss me an e-mail.

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 1)
    by Anonymous on Friday, October 05 @ 09:05:14 BST

    Sorry, I can't follow you : it's ok to install a matrox binary module (mga_hal) for the g450 to work, but it's not ok for a nvidia card ?

    --

    Rémi

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Monday, October 08 @ 07:39:51 BST

    I did not say it was okay... I did not have a choice on those video cards considering they were included with the Dell workstations that were purchased by our company. It is a consideration the user would have to make so I included it to be completely clear about the setup in all cases.

    I would choose a G400 over a G450 because they are 1) cheaper and 2) do not require this binary module.

    -colby

    [anonymous while away from home]

    [ Reply ]


    Re: Best current GLX drivers (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Saturday, October 06 @ 04:22:24 BST

    I used to have a Nvidia card in my system too. I had hard lockups (not just X, but total lockup of the machine) at least 3 or 4 times a week. I pulled that card out of my machine and bought an ATI card (Radeon 64 DDR) and have had *NO* problems since then. I don't give a crap about Nvidia's closed source drivers - the GLX code is stable and fast. For you dual-booters out there, the Radeon is wonderful in Windows as well. Do yourself a favor and buy a Radeon card.

    [ Reply ]


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