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    IRC Meeting over
    Submitted by agl on Saturday, November 25, 2000 – 21:18
    The DebianPlance IRC meeting has finished and was generally a sucess, except that the rep from DebianHelp didn’t show. The full log is below

    Main Points:
    * Ask DebianPlanet is to be retargetted to more general questions
    * DP will stress it’s news/comment stance rather than Q&A
    * DH should try to bring together the lists, FAQ-O-Matic and forum
    * People like Featured Articals, and DP will try to do more of them
    * The Debian WebTree is unweildly and probably impractical for a weblog
    * Make DP an official news source for Debian and closer integration where possible with debian.org
    * DP will try to get planet.debian.org
    * More interviews
    * Sidebars with information on package status and security alerts etc
    * Sourceforge project to host the changes to the PHPNuke core
    * The creation of Staff pages

    IRC Log of the DebianPlanet Discussion


    **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 25 20:06:00 2000
    –> agl [agl@host213-1-170-221.btinternet.com] has joined #debianplanet
    >>> Topic for #debianplanet is We’re getting press passes for the Australian Linux Conference, Sydney, January 2001 (www.linux.conf.au) (netsnipe) || Thanks goes to xk_ for apt! (netsnipe) || Look at who we might interview there! Wichert, Cox and Rasterman! (www.linux.conf.au/attendees/) (netsnipe) || Meeting here tomorrow at 7pm UTC, be here or be bleh! (robster) || No news is good news… (zanaga) || How about Debian for Palm?! (zanaga)
    >>> Topic for #debianplanet set by apt at Sat Nov 25 09:47:31 2000
    >>> ChanServ gives channel operator status to agl
    <agl> evening all
    <V_dp> howdy
    <– robster has quit [Read error to robster[164-46.surf.dial.plus.net]: Connection reset by peer]
    >>> robster [rob@164-46.surf.dial.plus.net] has joined #debianplanet
    <agl> We’ll get started in a minute I guess
    * agl is logging
    >>> ChanServ gives channel operator status to robster
    <robster> okay
    <robster> Hi everyone, we’ll soon be starting our discussion. If you want have a chat amongst each other
    <robster> we’re running a bit late as i’m waiting for Netsnipe to turn up
    <joeyh_bed> he wasn’t too happy with the 6am thing πŸ™‚
    <agl> do people want to go round and introduce themselves? (who they are with etc). Any ops are debianplanet people
    <robster> joeyh_bed: no, i know. i told him i was sorry
    <robster> do we have our Debian Help representitive here?
    <robster> hmm
    <robster> Oh dear
    <agl> that will fsck up that then
    <robster> So what do people think about Debian Planet, hows its run, the site itself, content, etc. What would you liek to see different?
    <robster> Dont all rush at once πŸ™‚
    <V_dp> I would just say keep it up..
    <alp> Yeah, I aggree with V_dp. keep it up..
    <robster> as a seperate entity?
    <robster> or do we merge into the Debian.org tree, joeyh_bed?
    <– tko (tk@jt5-223b.tky.hut.fi) has left #debianplanet (.)
    <joeyh_bed> that’s really up to you. If you want to be an official part of debian eventually, the web team will probably be ok with that
    <alp> I started using debian a week ago or so, when both Debian Planet and Debian Help were around. DP seemed to me to be an upmarket version of DH, perhaps with more in-depth coverage while DH seemed more like a Q&A forum.
    <robster> the debian.org site has no community aspect which i like to think DP fulfills
    <robster> I think the problem with DH is the use of the wbelog format, which is not apropriate for the task
    <V_dp> merging would prolly be a good idea IMO.. I dunno the details of what, who, where.. but from a reader’s perspective, it’s one less site I hafta track and the content would, I assume, flesh out better than being spread out on two sites..
    <robster> a forum approach, would be more suitable do you agree?
    <alp> yes, i found the “slash” format a bit out of place on a Q&A site robster
    <joeyh_bed> I’m not sure what a forum format is, but weblog is silly for questions that have a single definitive answer
    <robster> V_dp: another good option would be to seperaate and create a definite distinction between the two, you got here fore news and there for Q & A
    <joeyh_bed> makes sense for more open-ended questions
    <agl> the weblog is good for the news/comments
    <robster> joeyh_bed: something like question exchange
    <robster> either you merge to one or you create a distinction, a bit of both on both sites is a mess
    <joeyh_bed> fwiw, I haven’t been too taken with dp’s question articles
    <robster> debianplanet has already adopted a news/comment stance rather than Q and A
    <robster> joeyh_bed: they are not going to be continued now DH is on the scene
    <robster> joeyh_bed: i did not thoroughly approve of them in the first place
    <robster> the only time when DP should hold a Q is with a very open question based on opinions like whether commercial developments based on a debian are a good thing
    <alp> otoh, the slash format that DH has taken up is quite nice because it shows that there’s more than one way to achieve the end-result. you miss this all to easily in a prefab FAQ.
    <robster> alp: ah but access to the older questions is not easily available
    <robster> i think that DH should adopt a format like questionexchange
    <alp> robster: perhaps someone needs to go through the old posts, clean them up and save them in a larger FAQ for prosterity..
    <robster> also where does the new Debian official FAQ-O-MATIC stand in this mess
    <robster> alp: automated, would be best approach
    <robster> joeyh?
    <joeyh_bed> well it’s not new, just newly working again
    <joeyh_bed> i’m not sure..
    <robster> really, i had not heard about it before it came up as an item
    <robster> if debianhelp could bring the lists, FOM and forum all togehter into an easily searchable format
    >>> jimbeam [jim@A6cdc.pppool.de] has joined #debianplanet
    <robster> i think that would be beneficial rather than having many spread out sources
    <robster> the weblog format they have adopted does not aid in this
    <alp> the faq-o-matic is a bit out of the way for debian newbies. it certainly wasn’t the first place i looked when i started off.
    <robster> i think debian has the basic getting started docs, what we need is a palce with upto date debian specific info and i think DH should fulfill this role
    <agl> so what is debianplanet’s neich since DH is doing all the help. Just news?
    <robster> its unfortunate we do not haev a Debian Help rep.
    <robster> agl: and comment/opinion, featured articles too
    <robster> does anyone else have any opinions ideas on this?
    <robster> i am happy to haev DP absorbed into the debian web tree, would that mean being mirrored, or linked and hosted elsewhere, what?
    <joeyh_bed> well the debian web tree is unweildly and probably impractical for a weblog
    <joeyh_bed> it only updates a few times a day
    <robster> hmm yeh. perhaps a planet.debian.org subdomain
    <robster> and then just a link to it from the main page/everypage
    <robster> ?
    <joeyh_bed> at least the main and news pages
    <robster> yeh
    <robster> i was hoping our hosters would be popping in for a chat, obviously they are too busy, what about the fact there is only one debian official developer on our team?
    <joeyh_bed> it really doesn’t matter
    <robster> joeyh_bed: good.
    <robster> so DP is going to cease its help/support content and concentrate on featured articles/news/opinion/comment
    >>> Oryn [Oryn@host62-7-59-214.btinternet.com] has joined #debianplanet
    <agl> who do we contact for planet.debian.org?
    <robster> and encourage DebianHelp to adopt a different content approach, attempt integration of maillinglists and FOM
    <robster> joeyh_bed: agreed?
    <joeyh_bed> oh, I can get you in contact with someone. Are you sure you want to change your domain?
    <robster> agl: agreed?
    <robster> joeyh_bed: we can keep them in tandem, i’ll get onto the hosters when it is set up
    <agl> robster: yep
    <robster> everyone agreed on that point, nothing else to add to DP/DH part?
    <robster> and on the point of making DP an official news source for Debian and closer integration where possible with d.o?
    <joeyh_bed> hm, here’s a thought…
    <agl> does anyone from DP actually monitor debian-annouce and debian-devel?
    <robster> agl: i d-a and ressu d-d
    >>> Dazman [daz@host62-7-44-107.btinternet.com] has joined #debianplanet
    <joeyh_bed> perhaps debian.org could pull headlines too
    <robster> lo Dazman
    <Dazman> hey robster .
    * Dazman could leave and join abit whilst X plays up πŸ™
    <robster> joeyh_bed: from our rdf, but that would require SSI or perl or something
    <joeyh_bed> yes, it would only be able to update every 8 hours, but still..
    <ZaNaGa> oki.. did i miss anything?
    <robster> Dazman: anythign to add abotu DP/DH we’ve said: DP is going to cease its help/support content and concentrate on featured articles/news/opinion/comment
    <agl> ZaNaGa: I’ll DCC log
    <ZaNaGa> thanks
    <robster> Dazman: and encourage DebianHelp to adopt a different content approach, attempt integration of maillinglists and FOM
    <robster> ZaNaGa: hmm a bit
    >>> Offering log.html.bz2 to ZaNaGa
    <robster> joeyh_bed: thats no _taht_ unconveiniant
    <robster> that
    >>> DCC SEND connection established from ZaNaGa [212.83.112.116:2194]
    <Dazman> yeah… I agree.
    >>> DCC SEND log.html.bz2 to ZaNaGa complete [292 cps].
    <robster> Dazman: and then integrate d.o and DP further
    <Dazman> robster, as much as possible πŸ™‚
    <robster> Okay. So everyone is agreed on the DH/DP/d.o points. great
    <ZaNaGa> ummh.. wait a sec.. i’ll just read the log
    Usage:
    /LASTLOG <string>, searches for a string in the buffer.
    <robster> okay. i’m guenna get a beer. quick break and then part II
    * agl hates beer
    <Dazman> whilst u do that, I shall attempt to get into x πŸ™‚
    * V_dp has been Xless for a day now.. =(
    <V_dp> #@$%! XF4.. =/
    <kbhr> hi
    <V_dp> halo, kbhr
    <robster> hmm
    <robster> back
    <robster> Dazman: you got v3?
    <Dazman> robster Yeah
    <robster> Dazman: did you read my article at DP?
    <Dazman> Probably.
    <Dazman> πŸ™‚
    <robster> Dazman: worked first time for me πŸ™‚
    <Dazman> I am getting keyboard errors now.
    <Dazman> since I apt-get install xchat from woody tree.
    <Dazman> no bacspace.
    * agl had been running X4 for months, so he was ok
    <ZaNaGa> i’d kill to get my nvidia to work with X (althought i’d kill for time to work with it too.. =)
    <robster> Dazman: hmm, dodgy, /msg me keyboard section
    <Dazman> does X4 use something different from xkb?
    <V_dp> I cant tell what’s wrong with my config.. there’s no errors at all.. the server runs.. but all I get a blank screen..
    <ZaNaGa> oki.. got through the log.. not much.. but enought
    <– tukata [veitw@p3E99093A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #debianplanet
    <Dazman> robster, I just get xbcomp no such file or directory, so I put xkbcomp where it wants it and now it’s bitching more.
    <Dazman> I wonder if I have some X4 bits and X3 bits and they don’t work πŸ™‚
    <robster> Dazman: i think so. just use that clipping i sent you
    <ZaNaGa> robster: oh.. little additions to your comments.. i read d-a too..
    <robster> Dazman: v3 3000?
    <robster> ZaNaGa: yes i know
    <ZaNaGa> heh..
    <ZaNaGa> and a few others..
    <ZaNaGa> hmm.. who is from DH?
    <agl> ZaNaGa: noone ;(
    * Dazman might just whack X4 on
    >>> FoxFire has offered pk.ps (97258 bytes)
    <robster> ZaNaGa: that was the problem. no one
    <ZaNaGa> hmm…
    <robster> Dazman: not running X4?
    <robster> ZaNaGa: so this is a mroe DP and d.o chat
    <Dazman> robster No πŸ™‚
    <ZaNaGa> robster: do you have somekind of an agenda?
    <Dazman> robster Thats what I say :_
    <robster> Dazman: why not?
    <robster> ZaNaGa: yeh, it is DP/DH/d.o then suggestions/comment then about us then free for all
    <Dazman> robster Cus’ I couldn’t get ttf fonts working last time so I gave it a miss.
    <robster> Dazman: hmm i seem to be runngin xfstt adn xfs as well, havent touched it for fear of breakign it
    <robster> okay
    <Dazman> robster, well, when I run xfstt with X4, rxvt took 5 mins to open :/
    <robster> Dazman: eek.
    <robster> ready to roll for part II?
    <agl> robster: sure, what’s the topic?
    <Dazman> I’ll try again with X4 then
    <robster> okay. whose has any ideas for extra things we can do, suggestiosn fir improvements, bug reports
    <robster> and we are goign to make up our todo list too
    >>> DCC RECV pk.lyx from FoxFire complete [2712 cps].
    <robster> so suggestions?
    <robster> dont all rush at once πŸ™‚
    <agl> more feature articals – much more
    <alp> well, i think the articles are the best bit.
    <ZaNaGa> interviews..
    <robster> yeh i agree
    <ZaNaGa> are there volunteers to do on site interviews?
    <robster> we will have some interviews from linuxworld in australia
    <ZaNaGa> good..
    <robster> see topic
    * agl will do interviews
    <kbhr> i think current-status-of <package xyz> would be very useful. the sort of thing you pick up by hanging around #Debian too much.
    <robster> i’m slowly downloading progeny linux so a review is in the pipe line
    * ZaNaGa has a bit of a hard time doing any.. since there are aonly a few developers in .fi
    <joeyh_bed> what’s broken in unstable today
    <robster> kbhr: hmm, difficult with 3000 packages
    <robster> joeyh_bed: i like that alot
    <ZaNaGa> i was about to make what is updated today.. but it didn’t work..
    <robster> kbhr: we’ll do it as most recent breaks
    <robster> user submitted
    <kbhr> robster: well, not for all packages, of course. but a quickie about “if X won’t start on unstable for you, they’re using a new /etc/X11/X link this week.”, for example.
    <robster> kbhr: very good idea, well done πŸ™‚
    <ZaNaGa> how about something like mozillazines buildbar?
    * kbhr wonders if robster is being sarcastic πŸ™‚
    <ZaNaGa> recent comments on debian..
    <robster> yeh we need to get the most updated packages
    <robster> kbhr: no i’m not, seriously a great idea
    <ZaNaGa> what broke today… bugs closed.. and so on..
    >>> GEM [mcmullan@MULTICS.MIT.EDU] has joined #debianplanet
    <Dazman> We need to tell people how to startx.. then I can read the damn thing πŸ™‚
    <Dazman> heh
    <kbhr> okay πŸ™‚
    <robster> kbhr: i rely on #debian topic to tell me
    <robster> heh
    <joeyh_bed> well it should be possible to do a sidebar of what packages were updated in a given day
    <robster> in mozilla?
    <robster> yeh i like
    <ZaNaGa> joeyh_: did that.. but it grew too big
    <kbhr> hey, mozilla sidebar. great idea.
    <joeyh_bed> ah
    <agl> the sidebar of updated packages sounds cool
    <ZaNaGa> agl: i can do that..
    <robster> instead of updated packages: new packages and security afffected padkages
    <agl> eek, mozilla specific stuff – what about us links/lynx/w3m users?
    <robster> agl: this is extra anythign there will be avialable in plain html
    <agl> robster: ok
    <ZaNaGa> agl: we already have a mozilla sidebar.. whats wrong with that.. lynx/links/w3m and others don’t just have to use it.. =)
    <robster> so i say
    <robster> lets have a side bar split into two: new packages and security affected and then a link to a lsit of updated packages
    <agl> we just need someone monitoring debian-security
    <robster> and seperately of course our user supplied list of broken packages
    <robster> joeyh_bed: hows hte security list on front page done?
    <– Dazman has quit [ARGHH]
    <joeyh_bed> manually unfortunatly
    <robster> joeyh_bed: wll if we could process the security list you can grab that off us as rdf and automate it!
    <robster> ?
    <ZaNaGa> i can try and make somekind of rdf out of it..
    <robster> ZaNaGa: use perl, its great for parsing stuff like that
    <ZaNaGa> or log it to sql base.. which can then be extracted as rdf..(which would be better alternative)
    <ZaNaGa> robster: thats how i made the updated packages..
    <joeyh_bed> I’ve never really understood wny it’s done manually, I’m not involved with it though
    <ZaNaGa> robster: only thing was that when dinstall ran.. it produced too many new packages..
    <robster> or perhaps pursuade the security team to submit the reports via a web form which adds to db and sends out the message to list?
    <– alp has quit []
    <kbhr> sometimes i think it would be useful to have a comparison of various packages that provide the same thing, like the MTAs (big & featureful vs small and fast)
    <robster> kbhr: the pseudo packages try to do that
    <agl> well, qmail just shafts everyother MTA πŸ˜‰
    <ZaNaGa> kbhr: mmh.. we just need people to do those..
    <robster> okay this is not a mta debate, obiously smail is the best πŸ™‚
    <kbhr> heh, okay. didn’t want to start a war here.
    <ZaNaGa> postfix
    >>> Dazman [daz@host213-1-154-115.btinternet.com] has joined #DebianPlanet
    <robster> right, someone suggested a DebianPlanet bigfotn theme for easy readability
    <robster> does anyone else haev problems with this i dont want to set it up with only a few people usign it
    <kbhr> the other thing that would interest me is an “rpmfind.net” sort of thing: non-debian.org sources.list lines for various programs not in debian
    <robster> kbhr: look in our weblinks section there is a list for you
    <kbhr> gosh, you guys are way ahead of me…
    <robster> kbhr: no it just came up ages ago
    <robster> kbhr: sort of mega sources.list
    <robster> anyone?
    <ZaNaGa> ummh.. spell checker for posts
    <ZaNaGa> (i typo too much)
    >>> DCC CHAT connection established from BCoates [64.0.135.217:2221]
    <robster> no i mean about extra readable text?
    <ZaNaGa> lets make a css with bigger fontsize.. which would be included when needed..
    <robster> ZaNaGa: hmm, can you arrange that?
    <ZaNaGa> robster: i don’t know how fast.. but i can try..
    <robster> ZaNaGa: okay, that came up in an email to staff
    <robster> right next point. email this article option
    <ZaNaGa> robster: yeah.. noticed… (has staff been getting mail lately.. as i haven’t gotten any)
    <robster> i noted that this and printer version are avialable for articles (news) but not featured articles
    * agl has never got mail at agl@debianplanet.org
    <robster> this needs resolving
    <robster> agl: oh well. you dont use it enuff
    <kbhr> i think most of our problems aren’t with debian itself, so there’s not going to be *that* much stuff for a debian-specific page πŸ™‚
    <ZaNaGa> agl: you got now..
    <robster> kbhr: huh?
    >>> nuk [monte@63-163-62-136.iprev.actcom.net] has joined #debianplanet
    <– Dazman has quit [Try again]
    <robster> hehe
    <ZaNaGa> ok.. as i have been trying to say for the last 10 mins.. =) would there be interest in palm version..
    <agl> ZaNaGa: wow – cheers πŸ˜‰
    <kbhr> robster: i have problems with gnome, and xemacs, and so forth, but they aren’t debian-specific. the debian infrastructure has been working fine, ime. πŸ™‚
    <robster> kbhr: oh yeh
    <– V_dp has quit [welp.. gotta go..]
    * nuk is away: I’m busy
    <robster> ZaNaGa: sure, upto you. as a theme?
    * nuk is back
    * nuk is back
    <ZaNaGa> i was thinking about a normal page
    <robster> ZaNaGa: look into the teme system. i think it could easily achieve it with that
    <robster> s/teme/theme
    <– GEM [mcmullan@MULTICS.MIT.EDU] has left #debianplanet
    <robster> we need comments, printer version and send to in the featured articles, does 4.3 have this?
    <robster> 4.2 even
    * nuk is away: lunch
    <ZaNaGa> hmmm. haven’t seen the log..
    <ZaNaGa> changelog that is
    <robster> becuase we NEED that
    <kbhr> how many people are behing DP?
    <ZaNaGa> we need a fulltime coder..
    <robster> also the user.php bugs need filling
    <ZaNaGa> 4 active (AFAIK)
    <robster> yeh mroe on books but not active
    <ZaNaGa> 2 hyperactive (of those 4 =)
    <robster> 2 and 1/2
    <kbhr> heh
    <ZaNaGa> i think i’m more if the hyperventilating type..
    <robster> ZaNaGa: you know no one else read that item you posted to forum apart from me
    <robster> ZaNaGa: you undertaking php role?
    <ZaNaGa> yeah.. figures.. thats why i mentioned somekind of non-realtime one.. =)
    <robster> agl: are you into php?
    <agl> robster: a little
    <robster> ZaNaGa: mayeb mailling list is better some people are too lazy
    <ZaNaGa> robster: nooo! no more work for me.. i’m too busy (atleast for now)
    <robster> ZaNaGa: you take on just the php. nothing else. i mean i’ll help if you want
    <ZaNaGa> robster: ummh.. i’d prefer the mailinglists.. i’ll read them anyways..
    <agl> robster: I prefere mailing lists
    <robster> abotu the developemtn of the backend, our engine is becoming very un PHP-Nuke. we have to open source our mods, i think we need to setup a sourceforge project for it
    <ZaNaGa> robster: i can try to work on some php.. and non-web stuff but it will be a slow one.. =)
    <robster> i prefer lists too
    <ZaNaGa> talking about the lists.. is anyone monitoring d-u?
    <robster> ZaNaGa: no
    <robster> agl: wanna do that?
    <robster> another job of this chat is to allcoate tasks
    <agl> robster: mailing lists? np
    <ZaNaGa> robster: i hope you (or someone else) will make a summary out of this..
    <robster> agl: the debian-user list
    <agl> robster: or monitor d-u?
    <agl> robster: ok, will do
    <robster> ZaNaGa: setup a sf.ent projects or not?
    <ZaNaGa> robster: yup..
    <robster> ZaNaGa: okay. do you want to create it?
    <ZaNaGa> can you do that..
    <robster> ZaNaGa: sure will do
    <agl> hm, what happened to www.debian.org/lists
    <agl> ?
    * nuk is back
    <robster> so run through what needs to be on the todo lists
    <robster> agl: lists.debian.ortg
    <robster> user.php bug
    <robster> (s)
    >>> Dazman [daz@host213-1-154-115.btinternet.com] has joined #DebianPlanet
    <robster> add comment/print/mail supprot to featured articles
    <– nuk [monte@63-163-62-136.iprev.actcom.net] has left #debianplanet
    <robster> packages rdf (new/inseure/broke link to full list of updated)
    <robster> big font css
    <Dazman> ok, apt-get install task-x-window-system now :/
    <robster> anythign elses?
    <robster> Dazman: followign my guide?
    <Dazman> robster, heh, yeah πŸ™‚
    <robster> Dazman: good boy
    <robster> πŸ™‚
    * Dazman gives himself a chocolate bar.
    <robster> fruit and nut?
    <Dazman> sure.
    <robster> right
    <robster> anythign else to discuss?
    <robster> also for todo list:
    <robster> allocate jobs
    <robster> setup sf project
    <agl> I’ll look into doing some interviews
    <robster> create staff pages
    <agl> I’m monitoring d-u
    <robster> i need some bits about everyone
    <ZaNaGa> rob can you make a page for it.. and then everyone just claim what they want
    <agl> I’ll write a little into for IRC
    <robster> ZaNaGa: yeh
    <agl> I’ll post the log at the end of this
    <robster> ZaNaGa: np the todo list. jsut tasks. the todo list is mostly the php stuff
    <agl> who is seting up the mailing list? (I can)
    <robster> agl: spell check and clean it. that would be great
    <robster> agl: we’ll do it at the sf.net project
    >>> moshez [moshez@ras9-p127.jlm.netvision.net.il] has joined #debianplanet
    <agl> shall I close the log now then (is the meeting over?)
    <robster> uhm
    <robster> does anyone want to say anythign else?
    <Dazman> nope, apart from task-x-window-system fails πŸ™‚
    <robster> agl: will you undertak the staff pages?
    <robster> Dazman: purged old stuff first?
    <agl> robster: netsnipe was doing them
    <Dazman> robster apt-get just scrolls saying: no such file or dir on all packages.
    <Dazman> apart from a couple.
    <Oryn> has anyone noticed how php4 seems to break with every upgrade?
    <robster> Dazman: well netsnipe said he was doign the branden interview. take anythign netsnipe says with some reluctancy
    >>> Foglix [f.odenkirc@p3EE0A520.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #debianplanet
    <robster> are you all late for a reason?
    <joeyh_bed> Dazman: apt-get update
    <robster> okay talk over, thankyou everybody
    <robster> now


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